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dub wrote:but often genre names are never very accurate or though out.... grunge anyone?

Talk about doing more harm then good....

I think a lot of those 90s labels are more aesthetic generalizatioins than anything.
Grunge bands tended to look "grungey." With their ripped jeans and dirty flannel shirts and greasy hair.
Shoegaze bands spent shows looking at all their pedals. etc.

aaaaah! Ghost Trail. THHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEE KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!
Great song by one of my absolutely favourite bands. Went to Finland recently. Awesome show! Imagine watching/hearing them playing "Finland" IN FINLAND!

As far as the metal term goes I hate it. One of my bands is a metal-ish badn but I would NEVER use the term to describe the sound of either my own band (or another one I like for that reason..). It just has a bad taste to it nowadays. But then again, most genre-names are annoying. I usually stick to rock, pop, punk, rap and techno. Okay confess, sometimes I tend to mix em up but that's about it. For describing music I'd rather use adjectives than specific genres. It seems more satisfying that way!

Being one of the press/journo douchebags there are two things I'd like to add to this:

1.: Genre Names like this make it a lot easier to describe a sound than any other way I could think of. Of course you could also write that Cult Of Luna sound like a hundred riding zombies in slow motion. But that doesn't help. As long as you had not listened to them before you had no idea what I meant by that. And even if you had, chances are high that you think it sounds much more like a tulip petal drying in the Nevada desert's sun or whatever... By saying this is Post-Metal you actually stretch the this sounds like this. Instead of saying Cult Of Luna sound somewhat like Neurosis you say they make post-metal, which included Neurosis and a bunch of other reference bands.

2.: To me Post-Anything means that you further the sound aesthetics of a specific genre by applying more theoretical, artsy concepts to it. Punk & Post-Punk is probably the best example for this. Both Genres existed almost simultaneously, so the "post" does not mean later than. But if you compare

This:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bif2q_Zo3-4[/youtube]

To this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWmf7r_37eA[/youtube]

You can definitely see how it's related. But The Buzzcocks had this attitude of hell yeah, it's a song it works, rocks, fuck it, let's play. And Devo was more thoughtful, reaching for some meaning outside of their music. Same works if you compare

This:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOUqRZkR8dE[/youtube]

To this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdBKoiPE78Y[/youtube]



But there is definitely a lot to criticise about these terms, Post-Rock in particular. While it works quite well for Mogwai I'd be lost to find a heritage for Godspeed in Rock. They are rooted in Classical and Electronic music. Or for Tortoise. Their sound hails from Jazz. Still all three of these - very different - sounds are called Post-Rock. Also you could argue that music always hailed from sources. Anyone ever thought of calling the Rolling Stones Post-Blues?

Compare This:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwjGytOVVQA[/youtube]

To this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXaqbdwI3Dc[/youtube]

Sorry 'bout the sermon, but I dislike being called a douchebag.

you, good sir, warrant both an apology and a medal.

phantasmagorovich wrote:Being one of the press/journo douchebags there are two things I'd like to add to this:

1.: Genre Names like this make it a lot easier to describe a sound than any other way I could think of. Of course you could also write that Cult Of Luna sound like a hundred riding zombies in slow motion. But that doesn't help. As long as you had not listened to them before you had no idea what I meant by that. And even if you had, chances are high that you think it sounds much more like a tulip petal drying in the Nevada desert's sun or whatever... By saying this is Post-Metal you actually stretch the this sounds like this. Instead of saying Cult Of Luna sound somewhat like Neurosis you say they make post-metal, which included Neurosis and a bunch of other reference bands.

2.: To me Post-Anything means that you further the sound aesthetics of a specific genre by applying more theoretical, artsy concepts to it. Punk & Post-Punk is probably the best example for this. Both Genres existed almost simultaneously, so the "post" does not mean later than. But if you compare

This:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bif2q_Zo3-4[/youtube]

To this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWmf7r_37eA[/youtube]

You can definitely see how it's related. But The Buzzcocks had this attitude of hell yeah, it's a song it works, rocks, fuck it, let's play. And Devo was more thoughtful, reaching for some meaning outside of their music. Same works if you compare

This:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOUqRZkR8dE[/youtube]

To this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdBKoiPE78Y[/youtube]



But there is definitely a lot to criticise about these terms, Post-Rock in particular. While it works quite well for Mogwai I'd be lost to find a heritage for Godspeed in Rock. They are rooted in Classical and Electronic music. Or for Tortoise. Their sound hails from Jazz. Still all three of these - very different - sounds are called Post-Rock. Also you could argue that music always hailed from sources. Anyone ever thought of calling the Rolling Stones Post-Blues?

Compare This:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwjGytOVVQA[/youtube]

To this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXaqbdwI3Dc[/youtube]

Sorry 'bout the sermon, but I dislike being called a douchebag.

My apologies. :bow:
I was referring more to these kind of people: "...Crystal Castles may have come on at the tail-end of the blog-house/nu-rave/French-touch mini-rage..." (Pitchfork).
From the sounds of it though, you don't fall into the douchebag category. Additionally, your eloquence is quite stirring.

Medal, apologies and compliment graciously accepted! Thank you.

And, yeah, there are people out there that use terms like this to either appear smart or cool. But on the other hand everyone I know that works as a music journalist has given this some thought. And it's damn hard to write about music. Someone said that writing about music is like dancing to architecture. That was a smart person.

Funny and flattering that you think I'm eloquent. Thank you again.

I'm all happy now. Let's get back to bashing the stupid journalists!
And back to post-worshipping post-satan!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4jT7br5m1c[/youtube]

Check out the discussion under the video! By the way, Steve Von Till refused any genre but "rock" for their music, when I interviewed him a couple of years ago. That's a way of seeing it too. After all, everything is rock that rocks.

I give up. I have nothing more to say on the subject other than I love Cult Of Luna!

phantasmagorovich wrote:Being one of the press/journo douchebags there are two things I'd like to add to this:

1.: Genre Names like this make it a lot easier to describe a sound than any other way I could think of. Of course you could also write that Cult Of Luna sound like a hundred riding zombies in slow motion. But that doesn't help. As long as you had not listened to them before you had no idea what I meant by that. And even if you had, chances are high that you think it sounds much more like a tulip petal drying in the Nevada desert's sun or whatever... By saying this is Post-Metal you actually stretch the this sounds like this. Instead of saying Cult Of Luna sound somewhat like Neurosis you say they make post-metal, which included Neurosis and a bunch of other reference bands.

2.: To me Post-Anything means that you further the sound aesthetics of a specific genre by applying more theoretical, artsy concepts to it. Punk & Post-Punk is probably the best example for this. Both Genres existed almost simultaneously, so the "post" does not mean later than. But if you compare

This:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bif2q_Zo3-4[/youtube]

To this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWmf7r_37eA[/youtube]

You can definitely see how it's related. But The Buzzcocks had this attitude of hell yeah, it's a song it works, rocks, fuck it, let's play. And Devo was more thoughtful, reaching for some meaning outside of their music. Same works if you compare

This:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOUqRZkR8dE[/youtube]

To this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdBKoiPE78Y[/youtube]



But there is definitely a lot to criticise about these terms, Post-Rock in particular. While it works quite well for Mogwai I'd be lost to find a heritage for Godspeed in Rock. They are rooted in Classical and Electronic music. Or for Tortoise. Their sound hails from Jazz. Still all three of these - very different - sounds are called Post-Rock. Also you could argue that music always hailed from sources. Anyone ever thought of calling the Rolling Stones Post-Blues?

Compare this
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwjGytOVVQA[/youtube]

To this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXaqbdwI3Dc[/youtube]

Sorry 'bout the sermon, but I dislike being called a douchebag.

All good points. But I still think to be allowed be called post metal it should be as far from as say Napalm death as Napalm Death is from Judas Priest!
Compare this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K7CNzFhnCE[/youtube]
To this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbUl34e5hvY[/youtube]

Plus If Boris still calls them selves metal....

PanicProne wrote:I give up. I have nothing more to say on the subject other than I love Cult Of Luna!

This is why the thread just should have been: I love Cult Of Luna! so should you. Then none of this would have happened


And Yes I know ND is Grind but they still work for my point IMOP.

its kinda funny that Boris call themselves metal but the Melvins don't... aha

Mudfuzz wrote:

PanicProne wrote:I give up. I have nothing more to say on the subject other than I love Cult Of Luna!

This is why the thread just should have been: I love Cult Of Luna! so should you. Then none of this would have happened


And Yes I know ND is Grind but they still work for my point IMOP.

Agreed. Even tough it is hard to apply my art criteria to metal, cause most of what is metal and its derivatives already incorporated a certain artsyness. So you might argue that all Metal should instead be called post-rock.
It's a pity that language doesn't work logically. I'd be completely fine if you called Napalm Death post-metal. Or even if you called bicicles bivotas and guitars gublinas. I'm not saying that either word is better. But some work better to make yourself understood.

And thanks, panic, for introducing me to Cult Of Luna. The song you posted is awesome!

deadbeatriot wrote:i've been getting into cult of luna, but i have no idea what to classify them as.

Firstly, I'd stick to the "good music" tag outside the genre thinking. Then, if needed for the arguments sake, I'd classify them metal, any day, as much as - say - Opeth, Therion, My Dying Bride, Notre Dame, Akercocke and Sunn o))) can be labeled metal.

the intro is a little flaming lips-ish