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D.o.S. wrote:Yeah Tube rolling can be super fun but with the vintage shit it really does start to get into "can I tell the difference jamming with a band? fuck no" territory. But (especially in the '90s and early '00s) a lot of the easily available tubes were definitely a cut below the vintage ones. I'm not sure about what the market is like now because I haven't been playing my tube amp extensively for the last four years or so

This is exclusively for headphone playing and recording, so I feel like if there are nuances to be noticed, I’ll notice them as it’s pretty close listening basically all of the time. It’s likely not going to make a crazy difference, but I’m not really looking for other pedals at the moment, so of course I have to find something else to tweak!

i'm a huge believer in tube-rolling preamp tubes. i don't feel like doing 500 words on the differences between tube brands, but among my favorites are:

Telefunken. if you want hi-fi, it's spelled "Telefunken." cleaner than D.B. Cooper's getaway.
Amperex. a very nice middle ground between clean and not-so-clean. i like these in the V1 position. they just sound good, with little extraneous coloration. there's no reason to pay a premium for the "bugle boy" Amperex, which to me are indistinguishable from ones without the logo.
GE. a beautiful, "pearly" sound that goes with Fender amps like ham goes with swiss cheese. not so much "hi-fi" as "NICE-fi."
RCA. these are kind of the opposite of Telefunkens. if you want breakup, RCAs will give it to you in spades. i like them in the drive-channel spot, usually V4.

i want to get two Telefunkens for my Black Finger compressor to try and get as close to studio tube compressor cleans as possible. any of these is at least 10x better than a current-production Chinese/Russian 12AX7.

dubkitty wrote:i'm a huge believer in tube-rolling preamp tubes. i don't feel like doing 500 words on the differences between tube brands, but among my favorites are:

Telefunken. if you want hi-fi, it's spelled "Telefunken." cleaner than D.B. Cooper's getaway.
Amperex. a very nice middle ground between clean and not-so-clean. i like these in the V1 position. they just sound good, with little extraneous coloration. there's no reason to pay a premium for the "bugle boy" Amperex, which to me are indistinguishable from ones without the logo.
GE. a beautiful, "pearly" sound that goes with Fender amps like ham goes with swiss cheese. not so much "hi-fi" as "NICE-fi."
RCA. these are kind of the opposite of Telefunkens. if you want breakup, RCAs will give it to you in spades. i like them in the drive-channel spot, usually V4.

i want to get two Telefunkens for my Black Finger compressor to try and get as close to studio tube compressor cleans as possible. any of these is at least 10x better than a current-production Chinese/Russian 12AX7.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to hit the guy up maybe this weekend to see if he still has one for my Le Clean.

n.p. i must have accumulated all this info for some reason.

The Telefunken ECC83/AX7s are my go-to (including a particularly magical microphonic one I pull out for special recording fun) if I have a choice, but they ain't cheap no mo.

I would suggest changing to a 12AU7, or 12AT7 before fucking around with NOS 12AX7s. The different gain structure is going to be more apparent than changing different brands of 12AX7.

But if you want to go 12AX7, new production Tung Sol are pretty good - I usually buy them. I like old Mullards the best, but Telefunken (as everyone has said) are cool. But I dunno. I think it's a lotta cash for a marginal difference. It's there but fuck it, you know? So I'm pretty cool with my Tung Sol tubes.

goroth wrote:I would suggest changing to a 12AU7, or 12AT7 before fucking around with NOS 12AX7s. The different gain structure is going to be more apparent than changing different brands of 12AX7.

But if you want to go 12AX7, new production Tung Sol are pretty good - I usually buy them. I like old Mullards the best, but Telefunken (as everyone has said) are cool. But I dunno. I think it's a lotta cash for a marginal difference. It's there but fuck it, you know? So I'm pretty cool with my Tung Sol tubes.

I could just google it, but appreciate the conversation, so what is the difference in gain structure/character between AX, AU, AT, etc. tubes?

if you're going to buy new preamp tubes, Tung-Sol are among the better ones i've found. avoid EHX, JJ, and anything from China like the proverbial plague. i've compared a Russian EHX 12AX7 to a Chinese EHX 12AX7, and the difference in quality just on visual inspection is stunning. the Russian tubes are a bit shoddy, but the Chinese ones look like they were put together by the pupils in a 3rd grade class for Special Ed students.

Big fan of Tung Sol new production tubes. Experimented with many in my JMP and the Tung Sol just had the right amount of grit and toanz. Mullard would be #2. Odd thing but my Traybor YBA-1 is very sensitive with V1 for noise and an EHX 12AX7WA (or -WC) is perfectly quiet.

I have zero experience with NOS tubes. I don't know if the value is really worth it at market inflated prices.

New tubes are fairy cheap. Try two brands and see what works best. It is a worthwhile experiment at least.

new production Mullards are also good in my experience.

with NOS tubes it really depends on the price. i certainly wouldn't pay $100 for a Telefunken preamp tube, but $50? yep. they really are that much better. you should be able to find NOS/used-test-new Amperex, GE, RCA, Sylvania tubes for $25-30, or could the last time i was tube shopping which was a few years ago. conversely, if you can even find NOS Telefunkens or (particularly) Mullards you'll, as we used to say in the 70s, "pay through the ass." used/test new, or more likely used/test 80-90%, will likely be the best you can do there.