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echorec wrote:If you want to focus on cinematic soundscapes & ambient works, you can start doing that on a computer for $0.00 today. If you want to do experimental glitched stuff, there are free plugins that go much further than any pedal.

What do you want to do with samples? Are you leaning on them for beats, or do you just want to use them as a shortcut, until you can craft your own sounds? There are a lot of free sample libraries as well, but depending on the instruments you want, the price and choices will vary.

As far as being an intimidated noob, there are multiple software synths with randomization controls, so you can just click 'randomize' until you get a desirable sound. When it's 1am, and I don't want to tweak knobs, but I don't want to go to bed either, that's a handy feature. Lion costs $40 during sale events. If it was hardware, it'd cost $3,000+.

A lot of people talk about the tactile experience of rotating knobs and sliders, but I don't get it. If the goal is auditory and psychological fulfillment, the geographic location of your fingers shouldn't matter.

Since I'm pretty new to this, I'm not yet sure where I'll end up, how exactly I'll be working once I learned the basics of whatever new machine I'm buying. So a lot depends on that. Also, I don't yet know what kind of free samples I'll get my hands on, how much I'll need to rely on flied recordings for my samples.

It seems like starting out with free samples and stock sounds untill I get the hang of it would be a somewhat natural progression towards jusing sounds I make from scratch.

There's a whole buncha pros&cons when it comes to software vs hardware. One being the mental side...A new toy with knobs and faders vs the laptop I use every day for work and to pay bills. And I agree with another common argument: the limitations of a piece of hardware can be inspiring, keeps option anxiety away. And yeah, a digital platform like Ableton throws a lot of stuff at you at once, which can give you the feeling you're at school, struggling to learn new CAD software or whatever. Something that's more instantly rewarding might motivate me to hang in there, despite being more limited than the software alternative that cost a half as much.

So again, I would think that having both would give me the best of both worlds. Logic is the obvious choice for me due to its price and my experience with garageband and to less extend Logic. As far has hardware goes, one of those two Elektron Models or the Circuit...not real huge reasons to (not) pick one or the other, I'll probably go with whichever one I can find the cheapest

spacelordmother wrote:

frigid midget wrote:

D.o.S. wrote:If you want something that you can do more sound design on (aka tuning the synth to make noises), you might want to go with the Cycles. If you want the noises good to go out of the box (and are happy adding other noises to the box), pick the Samples. You can do a fair amount of tweaking to the samples, but you can't create from scratch the same way.

The real draw to either is the sequencer, which is the same on both. It's brill. Haven't played the Circuit so I can't comment on it.


edit: yeah fcknoise is right on.

Thanks for clearing that up. I kinda want both though :/
But I have to pick one, so it comes down to which job I'd rather do with hardware, and which one I wouldn't mind doing in Logic.

The thing about the Circuit is that on the hardware you're limited to those 8 macro knobs for synth editing. The engine is amazing and deep, but you can't get it it without the editor. Also: it does do samples, but editing is limited to 4 knobs: pitch, decay, distortion, filter. It can be very fun to use and its very immediate, but it definitely has its limitations.

Also re: Model:Samples vs Model:Cycles -- you could also say Digitakt vs Digitone. No samples in the Digitone, but the FM engine can do great drums. Sorry to complicate your life.

Yeah, thanks

Like I said, I'm not sold yet on any of those 3 options, but based on the demos and tutorials I checked I'm not convinced my first piece should be one of those more pricey Elektrons.
I'd probably want whichever one that works best for making glitchy beats and slow idm'ish stuff, that's the one aspect I'd like a good sequencer for instead of Logic/Macbook.

Having said that, if I happen bump into a REALLY good deal for an Digitone or Digitakt, I probably won't be able to resist, despite the steeper learning curve

The learning curve one the digitone isn't too bad. The FM engine is setup more like a subtractive synth with extras.

But "glitchy beats and slow idm'ish stuff" screams FM to me. Model:Cycles is probably a good choice, but I wonder about the polyphony. (I have the samples and haven't really looked at the cycles much)

Lots of good suggestions in this thread already! On the hardware side, I'd personally go with any combination of Polyend Tracker, Digitakt, Digitone and Volca Drum for the purposes you've listed. I have a Minilogue XD and while it's a great synth for the price, glitchy mangled stuff is not its exact focus.

...However, if you aren't completely against using your laptop, I'd strongly recommend trying Renoise. It practically exists for glitchy beats and sample manipulation, and it's actually not as intimidating as it may look on first glance (also, the official tutorials are excellent).

I've seen Renoise mensioned a couple times when google'ing for stuff that ticks my boxes, I'll have to check it out.

Anyway, I'm about to dowload Logic now. I wanted to go the other way around, hardware first, then Logic. But it's the worst possible time for me to spend money. I'm not gonna bore you guys with the list of set backs and unexpected bills, but I'm glad I at least have Logic to mess with now, it's all I can spend right now.

I'll bounce back though, but than I'll probably want to look for a small midi controller instead of a sequencer/sampler. An actual midi controller seems like a waste of keys though, I might as well go with a synth, no? Something really small should do, just something to finger drum, trigger samples, and to play simple melodies and chords...

Cheap, small, midi, decent mono sounds on its own...Microbrute? No drum pad thingies though

I'd look at Reason 11 Intro and download a few of the free VSTs from PureMagnetik.

frigid midget wrote:Something really small should do, just something to finger drum, trigger samples, and to play simple melodies and chords...

Perhaps Novation Circuit might be an option here?

+1 for the digitakt. It's a magical little box and fairly easy to wrap yr head around.

Since I didn't see it mentioned here yet... I acquired an Arturia MicroFreak last month and have been super impressed - the demos online emphasize zappy techno sounds (zzzzz), but I've found it to be even more flexible and expressive than I'd hoped, especially for ambient film score sounds. After selling a CS Reface a couple years ago, I'd been planning to get another one, but the MicroFreak can approximate the kind of sounds I've been missing from that synth, plus a bunch of other things. A couple of the presets even work as decent-sounding organ sounds, another thing I was looking for.
Anyway, I'm super into it and could see it being a pretty good starter synth.

Oh yeah MicroFreak looks like a fun choice for sure. Good idea

frigid midget wrote:I've seen Renoise mensioned a couple times when google'ing for stuff that ticks my boxes, I'll have to check it out.

Anyway, I'm about to dowload Logic now. I wanted to go the other way around, hardware first, then Logic. But it's the worst possible time for me to spend money. I'm not gonna bore you guys with the list of set backs and unexpected bills, but I'm glad I at least have Logic to mess with now, it's all I can spend right now.

I'll bounce back though, but than I'll probably want to look for a small midi controller instead of a sequencer/sampler. An actual midi controller seems like a waste of keys though, I might as well go with a synth, no? Something really small should do, just something to finger drum, trigger samples, and to play simple melodies and chords...

Cheap, small, midi, decent mono sounds on its own...Microbrute? No drum pad thingies though

Renoise is a tracker based daw. There is that in hardware on the polyend tracker, but that doesn't go as deep.

Big problem I had when I looked at renoise is that in trackers its a bit more difficult to record straight up guitar into it, or so I understood it

TheStevenLasombras wrote:Since I didn't see it mentioned here yet... I acquired an Arturia MicroFreak last month and have been super impressed - the demos online emphasize zappy techno sounds (zzzzz), but I've found it to be even more flexible and expressive than I'd hoped, especially for ambient film score sounds. After selling a CS Reface a couple years ago, I'd been planning to get another one, but the MicroFreak can approximate the kind of sounds I've been missing from that synth, plus a bunch of other things. A couple of the presets even work as decent-sounding organ sounds, another thing I was looking for.
Anyway, I'm super into it and could see it being a pretty good starter synth.

Oh shit yes these look hella dope!!

TheStevenLasombras wrote:Since I didn't see it mentioned here yet... I acquired an Arturia MicroFreak last month and have been super impressed - the demos online emphasize zappy techno sounds (zzzzz), but I've found it to be even more flexible and expressive than I'd hoped, especially for ambient film score sounds. After selling a CS Reface a couple years ago, I'd been planning to get another one, but the MicroFreak can approximate the kind of sounds I've been missing from that synth, plus a bunch of other things. A couple of the presets even work as decent-sounding organ sounds, another thing I was looking for.
Anyway, I'm super into it and could see it being a pretty good starter synth.

Yeah, the microfreak was one of the first ones that caught my eye....But is that keyboard at all annoying? It's not like I'm a piano player, but I don't know...I was looking at the microbrute and monologue because they at least have actual mini keys, and cost a bit less. Don't knock it till I tried it?

I had a microbrute for a while and can definitely recommend that too. I know some people don't love the filter but personally I think it sounds great and it's a solid instrument. Obviously somewhat limited in terms of just being one monophonic synth voice. But it's a pretty good synth voice.

frigid midget wrote: Yeah, the microfreak was one of the first ones that caught my eye....But is that keyboard at all annoying? It's not like I'm a piano player, but I don't know...I was looking at the microbrute and monologue because they at least have actual mini keys, and cost a bit less. Don't knock it till I tried it?

It takes some getting used to, but the ability to fine-tune Pressure sensitivity and to assign that to the synth’s parameters is extremely good. I’ve mainly used it for subtle pitch bends, and I really dig it. But yeah, it’s a different enough feel from regular keys, probably better to try it out first.