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I have to say, I play an AC30 and Vox's "model" of the AC30 on valvetronics amp you use is actually pretty close.

I don't know why other people are getting on your back so much. It's not a bad amp.

That said, getting a decent "gain" with ODs or distortion pedals out of that amp is going to be tougher than if you had tubes. You can't just use volume to get gain, you have to actually just induce gain other ways.

I would suggest getting an OD (groundwell, singing tree, or karaoke party, perhaps?). See if you can run an OD set with a mids boost setting into the rat or another distortion to get the high gain sound you want and then simply use the OD with the mids up for the "mid boost" tone. If that doesn't do it, go with another distortion box (I would suggest the MXR distortion+ for what you are looking to do - you can get it new for $50 with the coupon code i posted in the gear section).

You may find that you can totally alter your knob settings on the rat -- perhaps making them more intense -- when the OD is driving the tone. I would just dime every knob on the RAT with an OD set to mid to start and then try to slowly get the knobs down to a spot where the sound is bearable to listen to.

Try a Boss blues driver if you have a tube amp. It's a overdrive with a lot of gain.

Out of interest (if you have an peak inside) what clipping diodes does your RAT use? and what chip? it's sound can be altered drastically, 3mm Red LEDs add alot more bass and poweer while 1N4148//1N914 offer overdrive and 1N34A germaniums can be fun, different chips change the tone alot too, it's an fairly changeable pedal if you can solder, even badly.

I didn't know that about the Turbo RAT. I thought LEDs would be pretty much the same.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good pedal. It's just a bit bleh for me at the moment. It sounds kind of "weak" somehow.

Here's a shitty clip of the AD30VT demonstrating how tube like it can get:

http://www.box.net/shared/jfgzs16zx4

Listen to when it goes very clean; in actuality I'm just switching pickups, the neck pickup is turned way way down, then switching back to the bridge for the distortion, which is well through medium gain nearly into high. It doesn't even go dull or anything(though it's less bright).

This is the first two volume knob guitar I've had. Very useful.

I'm unsure, but I think what I'm after might actually be another fuzz, but one with some kind of mid boost. Seems kinda like the opposite of a traditional fuzz sound in some ways. SOmething between fuzz and OD, with a mid boost, and a lot less dry sounding than the Turbo RAT(Which is also between an OD and Fuzz).

Maybe I just need a Tubescreamer type dealy? A Boss SD-1 maybe? I like the QOTSA kind of sound, and that was an SD-1 into an Ampeg bass amp. I guess if I turn the tone down I could use that with other things.

Well If you go that route, I'd suggest a Boss OD-1, it came out 1 year before the tubescremer, sounds a lot like one, but vintage OD-1s cost 99.00, not 400.00

Roseweave wrote:I'm unsure, but I think what I'm after might actually be another fuzz, but one with some kind of mid boost. Seems kinda like the opposite of a traditional fuzz sound in some ways. SOmething between fuzz and OD, with a mid boost, and a lot less dry sounding than the Turbo RAT(Which is also between an OD and Fuzz).

Maybe I just need a Tubescreamer type dealy? A Boss SD-1 maybe? I like the QOTSA kind of sound, and that was an SD-1 into an Ampeg bass amp. I guess if I turn the tone down I could use that with other things.

Honestly, you are kind of going a lot of different directions there. No one piece of gear is going to get you all of that....

I would suggest working with the piece you already have --- the rat --- and driving it with something else.

If you hate the rat, sell it and go with something else simple you can build around (big muff or hyperion, perhaps?).

The sound your describing sounds almost certainly like a Rat. Maybe you should try the rat 2 or the deuce tone.

I don't have any personal experience with this pedal, so I can't completely vouch for it, but the Diamond Fireburst has a foot-switchable mid boost that sort of changes the texture from fuzz to distortion.

The Turbo RAT isn't mid-heavy enough I think... would a Vintage RAT or RAT 2 be more mid heavy? They don't sound much different to the Turbo RAT to be honest Would a stock one do or would I have to mod it? I find if a distortion isn't middy out of the box, it sounds kind of artificial to use an EQ. The gain structure needs to have that slightly honky feel.

I might try modding the clipping diodes of the Turbo like Scruffie said. How could I make it more mid heavy?

I'm thinking a modded SD-1 might be fun. Are there any simple mods to get more gain out of it? I actually really like the tone of the SD-1.

Roseweave wrote:The Turbo RAT isn't mid-heavy enough I think... would a Vintage RAT or RAT 2 be more mid heavy? They don't sound much different to the Turbo RAT to be honest Would a stock one do or would I have to mod it? I find if a distortion isn't middy out of the box, it sounds kind of artificial to use an EQ. The gain structure needs to have that slightly honky feel.

I might try modding the clipping diodes of the Turbo like Scruffie said. How could I make it more mid heavy?

I'm thinking a modded SD-1 might be fun. Are there any simple mods to get more gain out of it? I actually really like the tone of the SD-1.

Yeah, i was about to say you should consider the SD-1, it's just that the gain won't be high enough for you. There are mod kits you can buy on ebay to give it more gain

Maybe you have to start building pedals. Thats the only way I got "my dirt"

1,2,3, Pull Out! wrote:

Roseweave wrote:The Turbo RAT isn't mid-heavy enough I think... would a Vintage RAT or RAT 2 be more mid heavy? They don't sound much different to the Turbo RAT to be honest Would a stock one do or would I have to mod it? I find if a distortion isn't middy out of the box, it sounds kind of artificial to use an EQ. The gain structure needs to have that slightly honky feel.

I might try modding the clipping diodes of the Turbo like Scruffie said. How could I make it more mid heavy?

I'm thinking a modded SD-1 might be fun. Are there any simple mods to get more gain out of it? I actually really like the tone of the SD-1.

Yeah, i was about to say you should consider the SD-1, it's just that the gain won't be high enough for you. There are mod kits you can buy on ebay to give it more gain

Yes, that might be an idea. I imagine it'd be easy to mod too.

Also, I was thinking I could just turn the "Volume" knob up and cut into the Amp's gain. That'd work too. I need a high gain sound as opposed to a high gain pedal. Though I guess it'd be easier to have a high gain pedal in case I was working with a 100% clean amp.

Roseweave wrote:The Turbo RAT isn't mid-heavy enough I think... would a Vintage RAT or RAT 2 be more mid heavy? They don't sound much different to the Turbo RAT to be honest Would a stock one do or would I have to mod it? I find if a distortion isn't middy out of the box, it sounds kind of artificial to use an EQ. The gain structure needs to have that slightly honky feel.

I might try modding the clipping diodes of the Turbo like Scruffie said. How could I make it more mid heavy?

I'm thinking a modded SD-1 might be fun. Are there any simple mods to get more gain out of it? I actually really like the tone of the SD-1.

There's the Ruetz Mod which just entails replacing the 47Ohm resistor on your board with an 1K Linear pot and it allows you control the amount of specific frequencies dumped to ground, which could help you... but i'm not sure it'll get you more mid heavy.

I don't have the parts to board and rat atm and I haven't really heard of anyone trying to make it more Mid heavy so I'm not sure what values you'd want to change exactly.

The SD-1 Is also moddable yeah here's a bunch of them on a table, not by me mind http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/388/ ... odswq5.jpg

Roseweave wrote:I doubt you'd be able to tell live or in a mix. Especially if it's a modelling amp that has a tube in it anyway.

You can very much tell, believe me. At stage volumes modeling amps get... problematic. Muddy, unfocused. I worked at a rehearsal/recording studio in LA that did a lot of industry showcases, and the head tech hated it when anyone tried to use a modeling amp in a showcase because it took massive effort to make it fit in the mix.

Roseweave wrote:It's not using it as a preamp. It's using it as a poweramp.

A 12AX7 is a preamp tube.

Roseweave wrote:When are you reliably going to be able to "crank" a tube amp for bedroom practice anyway?

This is true. At bedroom volumes the power tubes aren't really coming into play, and the difference between tube and modeling won't be so stark. You're going to be able to tell the difference more and more the louder you get, actually.

And isn't part of the point of distortion pedals for some people that you get decent tones without having to crank?

I'd really distrust anything that isn't at least turned up. The way things respond is entirely different as the volume increases and the speaker starts really moving. You can have your perfect tone at bedroom volumes and it will completely collapse as soon as you turn up the amp.

I use distortion pedals because I don't like multiple-channel amps - they usually involve a lot of forced preamp saturation that just isn't what I'm looking for, and I'd rather have the distortion in front of the delay and fuzz rather than mess with an effects loop. I'm into single-channel, non-master-volume tube amps. Nowadays I've got a Ruetz-mod RAT set on the cleaner side with the volume turned up to slap the front end of my Silvertone around, and a homemade Highway 89 OD for the thicker, classic distortion sounds.

I would suggest you target your amp when you're looking at this problem - get a decent tube amp (there are cheap ones available!) or find a good non-digital solid state. Things will start looking better.