Effects pedals cost too much??? What's the new norm?

[PeteeBee]

I think this is a really interesting topic, one I’ve been thinking about for a few months. After losing everything and having to make a comprehensive list for tax purposes, I discovered I had previously had nearly 10 grands worth of gear (at full mark). I know that isn’t a lot for some but it sure was for me, and for how little actual creation of music I do these days. It gave me a chance to think back and start collecting again in a more strategic way. Like do I replace my acoustic that I haven’t touched in years? What about my full bass rig that sees almost as little use? I don’t have anything productive to add really in full tldr fashion.

[BetterOffShred]

That Orignal Klon Centaur you had should definitely be on the list.. And that '59 Les paul.. just saying.

[$harkToootth]

I have a weird logic around this...maybe some relate?
i. I think it is 'uncool' to sell coveted gear at ludicrous prices.
ii. That said, I don't think it's anything to gripe about. I personally don't know anyone with diabetes but I know the price of insulin is out of control and something that should actually be griped about.
iii. That said, to that said, if someone chooses to gripe about it...the seller should be prepared for said griping and inevitable hilarity on a public end.
iv. If the seller takes issue with said griping, they're a scrote. Like relax...you're getting a stupid amount of money for a stupid thing.

I guess I'm a hypocrite cause while I'm not one to call out flippers...I do find the people that do, and the threads to be hilarious, dare I say, fulfilling

EDIT: Re-reading this, I don't think I was super articulate. Step 'i' shouldn't happen, but if it does, when I say "gripe" I don't mean "banter". So if a seller is posting in the BST for an absurd amount of money...they should fully be prepared for a 'banter thread' and offers of $22. It's part of the deal. Comes with the territory.

[Benn Roe]

I don't know what your original post said beyond what's been quoted, but most $400+ pedals really are incredibly sophisticated, and likely extremely expensive and time-consuming to make. I wish every pedal I liked could cost $100 or less, and I'm certainly saddened when I see high price tags on pedals (because I don't make a lot of money and don't have the right type of brain to accept when I can't afford something), but I wouldn't say I'm sickened. A lot of gear just couldn't exist at lower prices in a capitalist economy. Granted I'm not in manufacturing, but I've been running my own business for 9 years and I know what it feels like to clear half a million in sales for a year, but personally have less than $10,000 to show for it. Every business has its share of hidden costs. Are there companies upcharging because they can? Probably, but I don't think it's epidemic.

[Benn Roe]

On a related gripe, whereas I'm pro-M.A.P. from the perspective of a small brick-and-mortar retailer, the prevalence of M.A.P.s in the pedal world has really done a number on the secondary market. Back in my less discriminating gear days, I'd see a $200 pedal and say "I can't afford that, but I'll just pick up a used one for $80". Now I see a $400 pedal and say "ugh, nobody's allowed to sell that under $400 new, so nobody will sell it for less than $370 used, so I might as well just buy it new." Likewise, I've had little to no luck selling readily available pedals from small builders at relatively reasonable losses, because nobody's looking on the secondary market for anything that isn't scarce (anyone want a Musket?).

[dozicusmaximus]

I've been watching people sell the same stuff I am for more. WHILE MY CHEAPER SHIT JUST FUCKING SITS THERE!
I enjoy looking at some prices on another gear related site. Gives me a good chuckle.
The used market sure has changed in the past few years.

As far as new expensive gear. All the options and quality parts is going to cost a lot of money. Also engineering= engineers (people who know what their time is worth). This generalization applies to the super pedals.
I haven't come to terms with the super vintage NOS $500 fuzz thing yet. That seems like a rip off to me. But, there's a market for it and if people want to buy them cool.

[Jwar]

Aww, I thought this was a good thread to think about.

Shame we'll never fully appreciate the context since the OP apparently didn't like the responses he got....

In my defense, I figured since it had so many views and only one snarky comment, that no one was really interested. I got gun shy, so that's my fault. Apologies.




Oh and I guess I'm more talking along the lines of shit that will be produced in larger numbers. Not limited edition stuff or small runs. Though, I do feel like those are gouging prices sometimes.

[$harkToootth]

Thanks for reposting the original post jwar!
Making me rethink my comments. I don't know? I wonder what companies think of consumers lately? People may think some pedals cost way too much...but then you see the other side (Curtis shed some context) and a builder could be like..."B-But I only make like $20/Pedal off that..."
I remember reading about the cost to make a DSI Tempest and that gave me some context. Some stuff is just expensive to make (granted...you don't have to build your stuff in a city as expensive as San Fran but to each his own).

[Jwar]

I guess when I started to develop my own pedal it kind of disgusted me. I found out how much some people's margins are, which is fine, I'm glad they are making it. I just don't think that some of the pedals equal the price.

Like, if you make a three knob fucking fuzz/delay or whatever, I don't want to pay 300 dollars for that.

[BetterOffShred]

Having built a lot of clones, there's a part of me that really hates the prices in effects these days, but there's also the part of me that realizes it's hard work to design an effect and make a batch of reproducible units that won't have you answering "this shit is broke" emails all day. So when someone comes out with something original and unique, yeah man I'll pay up if I want it bad enough.

Now someone selling a fuzz face with a buffer strapped on for $300 in my opinion is out of their damn mind.

It seems that the universal complaint is hourly rate for building stuff, and that's it. If it's being made in America or any other country with a working wage .. It's hard to even break even based off time necessary to assemble a pedal.

[$harkToootth]

Now someone selling a fuzz face with a buffer strapped on for $300 in my opinion is out of their damn mind.

https://www.zvex.com/products/fuzz-factory
tbh...I have a vexter that I got for considerably less than retail (also...holy fuck...retail on that went up...$200...go fuck yourself!!! don't hate me)

[Chankgeez]

I guess when I started to develop my own pedal it kind of disgusted me. I found out how much some people's margins are, which is fine, I'm glad they are making it. I just don't think that some of the pedals equal the price.

Like, if you make a three knob fucking fuzz/delay or whatever, I don't want to pay 300 dollars for that.

I agree with that to some extent, but you weren't going to try making a run of having it be your primary source of income. That definitely changes things.

IIRC, you also ran into development delays. That adds cost as well.

I think there's a lot of good info in crochambeau's post.

[actual]

'Tis capitalism biotch. If the makers of the pedals in the upper price bracket don't sell, they'll fold eventually, but as long as people keep buying, they can and should charge whatever the hell they want. And you should go find something else to get disgusted by.

[Benn Roe]

Yeah, I mean the bottom line is that there are way more costs associated with building a pedal than just parts. They take a long time to develop, a long time to build, and then if they sell well and you want to develop more pedals you have to hire people to build so you have time to keep developing. Then you have to build in a wholesale margin if you ever want to sell in stores. With enough demand you inevitably need a dedicated space to store and build in, and ship out of, which now needs to keep your staff comfortable, and has utilities, plus the government needs its cut in the form of various taxes. And don't forget that shipping expensive little boxes safely costs money, which most customers expect you to eat, so that gets built into the price too. For those of you who have built a one-off pedal, or even done some cloning, add in your time spent per pedal at minimum wage, and I bet it'll feel a lot less cheap to make, even without all those other factors. Again, I'm not saying there aren't a few people taking advantage of a market that supports a high volume of high-end products to pad their wallets, but I can't think of any companies off the top of my head for whom that feels true (largely because I think most people would see right through it, and not buy anything; problem solved).

I'm sure there are lots of justifiably expensive pedals that sound a whole lot like some much cheaper alternatives, and for many users those cheaper alternatives are probably the way to go, but I don't think that means the higher-end versions are necessarily the product of scheming money-grubbing shitbags.

[$harkToootth]

there's a lot of good info in crochambeau's post.

100%.

And you should go find something else to get disgusted by.

People in my town really NEED to start STOPPING at STOP SIGNS. It's out of control at this point.

Oh and to my next store neighbor...it's 20mph TOPS in a residential area. Remember...you're the one with three kids who play outside...not me! Slow down and stop texting and driving you scrote (kind of joking...kind of not )