New drum kit recommendations

[dubkitty]

i was going to recommend the Gretsch kit as well. one thing to be aware of, though, is that IIRC the rack tom has five tuning lugs rather that the more typical six, which might make it a bit trickier to tune.

[manymanyhaha]

Manymany: your looping setup sounds super fun. We used to play in a thrashy two piece together and would cram ourselves and all our gear into a prius. I'm secretly loving this small kit idea cause it would mean more room for my guitar crap if we ever start gigging together again

That is the entire reason I went Questlove: size. Would like to start playing out at some point. Here's a pic and sound sample:



https://soundcloud.com/manymanyhaha/2017-05-14b-editied

Having a punchy tone has more to do with tuning and head choice (batter/reso both matter) than drum size.

Have any recommendations for either or both?

[cogweh]

Having a punchy tone has more to do with tuning and head choice (batter/reso both matter) than drum size.

Have any recommendations for either or both?

From your pic it looks like you're using the kick drum as a floor tom? Turn it over to start since you're basically using the "bottom" as the top. Or not if you really like the sound. For a punchy sound you want your heads to basically cancel each other out. So tune the top from the bottom a note or two apart. Higher batter(top), you'll get more bouncy. HIgher reso(bottom) you get shorter beat. You could try an Evans GMAD heads (kick heads), but maybe since you're using it like a floor tom go with tom heads? Try Remo Ambassador's or Evans EC2's. Just a note, batter and reso (top/bottom) heads are usually different with reso heads being thiner since they're not supposed to be hit. But that doesn't mean you can't use the same head on both sides or use a reso head as a batter, but the chances that you'll break a reso is much greater.

Your sampling reminded me of this guy, I dig it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpb4zlpp9xw

[Muff_Diver]

This thread is a little hard to follow, but Cogweh has provided the best advice.

Unwanted resonance is definitely more of a tuning issue than a kit issue. I truly believe that unless you have a vintage kit, or a 3k+ kit, you can get them all to sound 99% similar with the same heads and tuning. The most important factor is the bearing edges, where the drum head makes contact with the shell. Cheaper kits have lower QC, thus, are more prone to flawed edges, thus making tuning pretty difficult, if not impossible, sort of like a guitar with whack intonation. Any kit that isn't an entry level should have decent edges. If youre handy with a router, you can cut/recut them yourself if they have any flaws (dual 45 is the ideal modern angle).

Next, "narrow and deep" is not going to get you punch. Narrow (diameter) will determine pitch, but deeper drums will yield less attack and punch than shorter ones. Because they're moving more air, the sound is going to reverberate a lot more in a deeper drum. Short ones (tama hyperdrive immediately comes to mind), will give you that quick punch and attack in spades because not only is it moving less air, but the reverberations die out quicker, due to the two heads being closer to one another.

Further, punchy and birch are synonymous. Mahogany, as you may know from guitar, really lends itself to sustain due to its density.

I highly recommend checking craigslist. People are always selling drums because theyre large and in the way, and for cheap because no ones really buying them (because theyre large and in the way).

Its always fun and exciting to get a new kit, but a new round of good drum heads (top and bottom), tuned properly, can make an entire world of difference for a kit. Tama makes a tension watch that makes tuning a lot easier. If you do end up getting a new kit, I would strongly recommend still getting new top and bottom heads for it. The stock ones aren't worth shit.

Hardware is more costly by weight. Ive used dw stands for 8 years of touring and they've held up well. PDPs (DW is to pdp what fender is to squier) stuff is a bit cheaper but just as good as long as you don't need the fancy tilt adjuster. Hi hat stands are the most expensive, and the one that oyu should spend the most money on because the cheap ones can be a real headache.

edit: Just saw we got into drum heads on the penultimate post. What you want is a 2ply clear batter head. Remo emperors are a staple (I use coated emperors), Remo pinstripes and Evans ec2's are really popular if you want some dampening. Aquarian makes these heads with an obnoxious amount of dampening if you really wanna go for it, but I think those make your drums sound like cardboard. For kick, powerstroke 3 is the only head anyone should ever have. Ill stand by that til I die.

[gnomethrone]

DuffMiver: thanks for the explanation, im starting to get a clue about how this all works. Thats super useful info. We sold pretty much all our equipment before moving across country so we're starting from scratch at this point and just trying to do things right the first time and avoid future issues. Theres a few full kits on my local craigslist right now. After work I might post some links here and see if anybody has some feedback on them.

[Muff_Diver]

Sorry for not reading about the move, congrats!
Where are you located? work is pretty slow for me right now...

[gnomethrone]

Oh we moved almost three years ago. You missed it cause I didnt mention it in the thread lol. We're in Milwaukee, Wisconsin after both growing up in San Diego. She was doing nursing school and then became an ER nurse so she hasnt had any spare time to play but now shes got a decent schedule and wants to get back into playing.

[Muff_Diver]

Its worth noting that all of these except for the DW are vintage and most likely have roundover edges and 3ply shells and rerings. If you really wanna nerd out, check out this link for some descriptions of different edges http://pdgood.us/drumshed/bearingedges.html.

To keep things short, roundovers are a bit mellower, have less sustain, are quieter and may be a little less forgiving with tuning (ive never had any trouble tuning mine), in other words, they sound vintage. I think that the mellower sound and less sustain will help accentuate the wanted punch.

C&C drums are probably the most popular modern manufacturer of these vintage-style drums, but also cost 1800+ new, which I think is near criminal when you have hundreds of the real vintage kits out there for 1/3 the price.

$550, white Rogers, 20x14, 14x10, 12x8 https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/msg/d/ ... 89301.html Good sizes, good brand.

$200, gold sparkle Premier Beverly, 20, 12, and 14 snare. https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/msg/d/ ... 08909.html This is what I would get and just order a similar vintage floor tom from ebay or guitar center. While I said shallower would be better for the punch, theres a reason why every single drummer and drum maker consistently use a 16x16 floor tom- it just works.

$715, Tobacco sunburst DW, 18x14 kick, 10x6.5 tom, 13x9 floor tom, 13x5.5 snare. https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/msg/d/ ... 63316.html
DW is probably the best major drum company currently in existence. Good sizes, good construction and good hardware on this one, but will most likely have the modern edges and thus a more "modern" sound.

$450, Blue sparkle Ludwig, 22, 12,15https://madison.craigslist.org/msg/d/pr ... 17351.html Not a lot of info on this one. It says its been rewrapped, and the badges suggest 70's era. The kick has some pretty dinky spurs though. But again, good brand and good sizes.

$650, 70s chrome Ludwig, 28x14, 14x10, 16x10, 18x10. https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/msg/d/ ... 51105.html
I love this one, straight Bonham sizes, though the shorter floor toms were definitely cut down, making me worry about the edges on them. Super cool kit though. a bit more of what I want than what it sounds like your wife wants haha, though I would be remiss not to include it.

If you also need a snare, cant go wrong with a vintage Ludwig. LM400, as cogweh said, is great. A Ludwig Acrolite is another classic that would prob cost a little bit less.

All this being said, your head choice is still going to make a world of difference. I prefer coated heads on top and bottom for a really fat, warm, vintage sound. If you want punch though, clear may be better for more definition. You most likely want a 2 ply on top (evans ec2, evans g2, remo emperor, remo pinstripe) and a 1 ply on the bottom (evans g1, remo ambassador). As stated earlier, remo powerstroke 3 on the kick is the only way to go. I use the aquarian kick pads over the evans or remo ones because they stick to the head a lot longer.

[Invisible Man]

Catalinas are awesome. Had a couple. Don’t have much to add at this point. A Catalina Club was one of the better kits I’ve owned. I play a Sonor Bop kit now and dig it. The one point I will make is that smaller drums are more fun. Easier to record, mix, and can even sound ‘bigger’ because they often emphasize midrange, and that keeps them out of the way of bass frequencies. My 28” marching drum kick was basically impossible to record.

You can get sweet stuff for around $500 for shells—those CL links look pretty good. I used to make a game of tuning cheap kits to sound great (with Ambassadors and Super Kick IIs, mind you) just to devalue the $6k DW kits across the aisle when I worked in a drum shop. I’ve never owned a shell pack worth more than $700–frequently much less—and have recorded tons of stuff. Good heads, tuning, great cymbals, and good hihat/kick pedals are probably more important than shell construction.

Let this thread be evidence of the range of opinion, though. I would never use a Powerstroke 3, though they’re fine heads. Try stuff, tailor it to your sound. Unless the dimensions are super weird, you’ll be ok. Oh, and smaller drums are waaaaay easier to move.

[gnomethrone]

Muff_D: dude thanks so much for the response and craigslist links. Lots of cool stuff to check out. I should probably clarify that I'm the one who is just learning about this stuff and she has been coaxing desirable sounds out of cheap drum kits for years. Her old pdp sounded great to my ears after she had worked out the right heads, tuning etc. The more expensive pearl kit she had bought as a step up was the one that always gave her issues with unwanted buzzes and hums. She ended up just tossing it in her dad's attic and gigging with the cheap one. Maybe it had bunk bearing edges and was doomed from the start. Hmm

InvisibleM: If small drums get your seal of approval I'm sold. I'll probably be the one that gets stuck carrying them since being able to lift heavy stuff is like my main contribution to our domestic partnership.

[cogweh]

small drums

Besides the portability, a lot more players have been going small since larger venue gigs are usually mic'd and smaller kits tend to have a tighter sound that goes well with electronic infused music. Like IM, I play a small Ludwig bop kit and just change out a cymbal and re-tune here and there for genre changes.

[gnomethrone]

Huh that makes sense. Very cool. Your avatar is top notch by the way


Isn't "most clubs mic your shit anyway" like an ILF meme or something? I swear I've seen that tossed around on here.

[cogweh]

Huh that makes sense. Very cool. Your avatar is top notch by the way


Isn't "most clubs mic your shit anyway" like an ILF meme or something? I swear I've seen that tossed around on here.

get mic'd!

[manymanyhaha]

From your pic it looks like you're using the kick drum as a floor tom? Turn it over to start since you're basically using the "bottom" as the top. Or not if you really like the sound. For a punchy sound you want your heads to basically cancel each other out. So tune the top from the bottom a note or two apart. Higher batter(top), you'll get more bouncy. HIgher reso(bottom) you get shorter beat. You could try an Evans GMAD heads (kick heads), but maybe since you're using it like a floor tom go with tom heads? Try Remo Ambassador's or Evans EC2's. Just a note, batter and reso (top/bottom) heads are usually different with reso heads being thiner since they're not supposed to be hit. But that doesn't mean you can't use the same head on both sides or use a reso head as a batter, but the chances that you'll break a reso is much greater.

Your sampling reminded me of this guy, I dig it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpb4zlpp9xw

I'm using it stand up, but intent is as a kick. And that tells you what I know, had no idea I was using it upside down. haha!

That will definitely help along with the other info on heads and tunings.

I enjoyed the vid. For looping, I take lots of inspiration from Helen Gillet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4sBgfLdmVw. Seen her dozens of times and what she does with a cello and a rc-50 inspires and humbles me with my lots of amps, effects and shit

[gnomethrone]

So we ran around town all week scouting out different used kits. Tried a few different sonor sets, a gretsch catalina and some others i dont remember. Oh - one was a DDRUM reflex that was the heaviest kit I've ever lifted. I looked it up and they're alder which I guess isnt common. We stopped in at guitar center last night and they had a used questlove kit with some evans 360 heads. Looks barely played. It was "the one" lol. I got to carry them through the icy parking lot of death and was like "fuck YEAH small drums".

Next up is cymbal shopping. If you were looking to get cymbals that sound like this: https://youtu.be/pvbJY2CjrUI where would you start? The ride in particular. She's talking about taking some time and building up the cymbals piece by piece.

Dylan Fujiyoka played drums on that record and he's sponsored by Instanbul Cymbals. Heres what they say he uses:
https://istanbulcymbals.com/artists/206 ... jioka.html
Ugh just that ride is like $400. Anybody have experience with istanbul?