ilovefuzz.com

Corgan has camp value at least. He's so bad that it's great. Reading what's up with Billy Corgan is a similar experience to watching B-Movies. Although I don't think he intends it that way. Reznor has just become kind of a flop.

I generally don't care about the people behind the music. Corgan made better music, ie I like Corgan better. Gone Girl soundtrack was pretty good though. Dat Folktek.

My take on the everyone's a critic thing and the crappy music phenomenon...the problem is you have this millennial generation who were told that they were important (they're not), who were told they can achieve anything they set their minds to (they can't), and who were told their opinions matter (they don't). They also got trophies for coming in last place in little league. So as a result, you have these self-important idiots running their mouths at every opportunity because they are under the assumption that what they have to say has value and people care what they have to say.

Now, it is important to realize that it is this same group of idiots who are the new artists putting out music today. While it may be true what Trent says that these very same folks are afraid of rejection because it will collapse the straw house they have built for themselves in their mind to protect them from reality and so they put out safe music, I don't think that is the root of the issue. I think the root cause is that, as I said above, you have these people who were told they were special and could do anything they put their minds to so now they think they have talent and music worth listening to. So they put out crappy formulaic music as that is all they are capable of doing.

Something else to consider is that maybe all the stuff that is thought of as 'good' or legendary in the past is really just as shitty as stuff now, its just media companies had a much easier time picking winners and losers and which winner to push onto the public as the real thing.

So maybe there were 1000 bands that could have filled the role of a band like NIN in the 90s and NIN just happened to pick the right lottery ticket.

Nora/Repoman 2020

repoman wrote:Something else to consider is that maybe all the stuff that is thought of as 'good' or legendary in the past is really just as shitty as stuff now, its just media companies had a much easier time picking winners and losers and which winner to push onto the public as the real thing.

So maybe there were 1000 bands that could have filled the role of a band like NIN in the 90s and NIN just happened to pick the right lottery ticket.

Agreed. Luck trumps talent in the current media landscape (very conscious word choice).

I don't agree with the assessment that thinking their opinion matters and sharing things nobody wanted to hear is a generational issue. It's focused on the young because there's the first generation now emerging who have grown up with instant worldwide communication platforms like twitter, but there are plenty of stupid grandparents sharing their inane bullshit on twitter (see donald trump and many others). Older people are forever holding forth about the state of our youth as if their opinion stands for anything in particular. Your dad would have been shouting at people on twitter or whatever if he'd had it when he was young, and if all the shitty high school bands in the past had had these platforms you would have heard THEIR genericore music as well.

People have always been making bland shitty music, they just have a bigger platform now. This is probably a good thing on balance (in that it's also a bigger platform for people doing really cool stuff with a tiny audience).

They're both annoying, I'd way rather to Smashing Phmpkins over NIN though. For whatever reason I've never felt any connection to NIN, they are simultaneously more famous and less interesting than their peers. Whereas Smashing Pumpkins at least had a great big (guitar) sound.

This interview didn't really bug me though, it barely even scratches the surface enough to count as an interview, or did I miss the back pages?

D.o.S. wrote:I think he's got something of a point, tbh.


There are also some qualifiers I would add to his statement though.

Yeah, I kinda agree.

"I see a lot of people making formulaic, made-to-please, vegan restaurant patron-type shit."

There is lots of formulaic music around, but I have no idea what he means about the "made-to-please, vegan restaurant patron-type shit."

I mean, it's not just vegan.

this thread would have been awesome if it was about napalm death and throbbing gristle, but it isn't

Ugly Nora wrote:My take on the everyone's a critic thing and the crappy music phenomenon...the problem is you have this millennial generation who were told that they were important (they're not), who were told they can achieve anything they set their minds to (they can't), and who were told their opinions matter (they don't). They also got trophies for coming in last place in little league. So as a result, you have these self-important idiots running their mouths at every opportunity because they are under the assumption that what they have to say has value and people care what they have to say.

But whose idea was it to give them the trophies?

fuck Corgan seriously although it's fun to see him do his antics

I like Reznor and I have no problem with his opinion. I don't necessarily agree but it's not annoying to me

Ugly Nora wrote:My take on the everyone's a critic thing and the crappy music phenomenon...the problem is you have this millennial generation who were told that they were important (they're not), who were told they can achieve anything they set their minds to (they can't), and who were told their opinions matter (they don't). They also got trophies for coming in last place in little league. So as a result, you have these self-important idiots running their mouths at every opportunity because they are under the assumption that what they have to say has value and people care what they have to say.

that's from that viral 15 minute talkshow video with that dude talking about managing millenials, right? as what would be considered a millenial, minus the achieving anything and trophies for last places (I'm not American), I disagree with the claim that "our" opinions don't matter. I think discussion is a great thing and I am happy I live in a world where I can talk about art so freely and with so many people People don't necessarily have to be into it or care but the question of value is unanswerable and undecidable. If the other part wants to listen and discuss, I will talk. If they don't want to listen, I won't. And if we're talking about social media - that's basically throwing shit on the wall and seeing what sticks but chance is there is going to be someone who will want to start a discussion if you write something they have an opinion on

And if you want to ascribe this self-important approach to criticism to millenials, I'd like to point out that in "Anatomy of Criticism" by Northrop Frye, he writes that the critic is an independent being who decides for himself what has or doesn't have value, presumably then what deserves his attention or what is to be written/spoken about. That book was first published in 1957.

edit: sorry if I seem too defensive, but your post reads as a massive cynical blanket statement which sort of... sounds more "conservative old guy yelling at people to get off his lawn" more than Reznor ever has?

I think he is right and maybe it upsets some of you cause he is speaking about you. I really loathe scenes and a lot of the shit out there now is just that. People just pick a niche genre and copy their influences. The doomy/sludge/neurosis crowd. The ambient and post rock folks. It's not just limited to those two but that is what came to mind.

It's awesome that now so many people can release their own music but a lot of it is just so slightly different from the next person/band in that genre that it's not interesting or kind of boutique and tailors to the target scene or audience.

Yet here I am, perhaps being/acting exactly like the people he is talking about in terms of:

The internet is giving voice to everybody thinking that someone gives a shit what they have to say and they have the right.

So I don't say any of this without knowing I may be falling into that high-horse trap.

He is right though.

I think social media is really destroying everything. It feeds people exactly what they want and music is part of that.

But he may also be doing in a way what he loathes about the random internet folks but from his position of success.

monkeydancer wrote:I don't agree with the assessment that thinking their opinion matters and sharing things nobody wanted to hear is a generational issue. It's focused on the young because there's the first generation now emerging who have grown up with instant worldwide communication platforms like twitter, but there are plenty of stupid grandparents sharing their inane bullshit on twitter (see donald trump and many others). Older people are forever holding forth about the state of our youth as if their opinion stands for anything in particular. Your dad would have been shouting at people on twitter or whatever if he'd had it when he was young, and if all the shitty high school bands in the past had had these platforms you would have heard THEIR genericore music as well.

People have always been making bland shitty music, they just have a bigger platform now. This is probably a good thing on balance (in that it's also a bigger platform for people doing really cool stuff with a tiny audience).

Aye. If anything, it's older people who have less of a block on what they publish online, because many are less accustomed to it. Watching the teens that are growing up today (who are somehow younger than me, fuck time flies by), there is an interesting development in online interaction. Less "look at me, having an opinion nobody cares about" and more actual interaction. And yeah, that might be a knee-jerk reaction to seeing some of the opinions on here, but honestly, I think the recent spew of hate on millenials is no different than every generation ever complaining about the ones that came after them. Fucking Aristotle already wrote this, the fact that it's still discussed really speaks to the refusal of change inherent in "our" culture.

I dunno how far I want to go into this discussion though, because any music made within the last hundred years (or ever) is derivative, and I think that's part of the beauty of it. Evolution and shit. What are you expecting to accomplish? There is a limit to the number of ways you can group sounds together, let the kids have fun with their bullshit.

As to Eivind's comments, culture is ever changing & people's concerns with "original" music have to do with getting paid.