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I haven't tried any of the new generation of boutique doom pickups, so I have an admittedly limited sample size here, but the heaviest stuff in my stash is an old walnut The Paul with an old pair of DiMarzio Super Distortions in it, and an ES 347 with a pair of Dirty Fingers in it. Thickest tones around over here. The Dirty Fingers probably have more balance across the frequency spectrum.

I like D standard, and I have been thinking of tuning to B standard, only because C standard has lots of sharp/flat notes and they mess with me. I am an edge of break up and pedals push an amp into distortion guy. I use an HM-2 as a boost, and either a black Russian muff or a rat for distortion.
Hope that helps.

I disagree with the Warpig sounding djenty. I don't think it has the low tightness to djent. Mine certainly didn't anyway. Low chugs have big fat bottoms that will make a tube amp rumble. I really dig that, but if I wanted to play some thrash with razor-tight palm mutes, I definitely couldn't use the Warpig.

Or maybe I just wasn't very good at dialling in a tight EQ with it. I just naturally went for a tone that felt like someone was standing on my brain, and stuck with it.

One person's heavy is another person's stupid. I think that the Powertrons will work great if you're trying to get get heavy from a guitar that creates a lot of acoustical energy, for example if you play Baritone, or use big strings with a semi-hollow. If you use a regular guage strings and a more restrained attack, you may have trouble getting heaviosity out of them.

Heavyness is so personal - you have to really zero in on your frequencies. I play tuned low (at least when I'm trying to be heavy). For low-output pickups I really like various Alnico IV pickups, because even though they're not loud, they sound really stringy clean and then really punchy with distortion, and their lows don't stand out too much. They sound like higher-output pickups once they start to drive some distortion. Examples would be Bare Knuckle Mule and Abraxis, DiMarzio PAF Masters, Duncan Saturday Night Specials. I use a custom-wound Buddha A4 humbucker, and it's not particularly heavy, but it's punchy and clear, and can move a lot of air. It's certainly heavy enough to do some palm-muting and move some slabs of distortion around.

For medium-output pickups, Duncan Customs sound more or less like regular 59 humbuckers but with a little added punch and unpleasantness that reads as heaviness. I'm curious about some other mid-output models.

As for true high-output pickups, IDK, because I don't like them that much. I have a soft spot for Duncan Invaders, and these generic Bill Lawrence knockoffs I had, but I probably wouldn't recommend either of them.

maggot wrote:One person's heavy is another person's stupid. I think that the Powertrons will work great if you're trying to get get heavy from a guitar that creates a lot of acoustical energy, for example if you play Baritone, or use big strings with a semi-hollow. If you use a regular guage strings and a more restrained attack, you may have trouble getting heaviosity out of them.

Heavyness is so personal - you have to really zero in on your frequencies. I play tuned low (at least when I'm trying to be heavy). For low-output pickups I really like various Alnico IV pickups, because even though they're not loud, they sound really stringy clean and then really punchy with distortion, and their lows don't stand out too much. They sound like higher-output pickups once they start to drive some distortion. Examples would be Bare Knuckle Mule and Abraxis, DiMarzio PAF Masters, Duncan Saturday Night Specials. I use a custom-wound Buddha A4 humbucker, and it's not particularly heavy, but it's punchy and clear, and can move a lot of air. It's certainly heavy enough to do some palm-muting and move some slabs of distortion around.

For medium-output pickups, Duncan Customs sound more or less like regular 59 humbuckers but with a little added punch and unpleasantness that reads as heaviness. I'm curious about some other mid-output models.

As for true high-output pickups, IDK, because I don't like them that much. I have a soft spot for Duncan Invaders, and these generic Bill Lawrence knockoffs I had, but I probably wouldn't recommend either of them.

Very informative! Thanks for posting that.

Another issue is what kind of headroom your equipment has. The high-output stock DiMarzios on my Yamaha Baritone (which I tune to B) sound pretty good through an amp with a ton of headroom and pretty generic through my Laney AOR 30, which has none. Conversely when I play through my regular-scale Hagstrom (which I tune to C) with the aforementioned low-output A4 buckers through some high wattage amps, I wouldn't mind a bit more ooomph. If I had to choose one, I'd go for lower output, though.

Or get some tapped pickups like creamery makes! High output, and then tap to low output. Options!

I like high outputs and then volume knobs for cleaning them up as needed. Not sure on heavy brands though.

paf type pickups are heby as shit. i tuned my les paul traditonal to c standard, oh man did those '57 classics fucking have it.

p90s aren't too far off from pafs, so i'd say go for it.

I'm not saying that anyone should get any of these pickups specifically, or even that any sentient human can listen to the demo riffs repeatedly without going insane. But I do find these rapid-fire comparisons illuminating when it comes to the variations between these various "heavy" pickup sounds.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3YzI3sd2WA[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbRlcdNHYDM[/youtube]

The soloed versions on the second video start at about 14:20 and they're much shorter. Obviously, if you're getting dirt from a fuzz everything is different from playing techy shit through a high gain amp like they are here.

speaking of no EMGs:
any way to sound like Prong without 'em?

My two cents: I think these days there are better ways to push an amp than via the output of your pickups. Get a heavier amp, use an eq pedal or a booster or something. Pickups should be there to provide the basic eq for the sound you want. But sometimes I have a hard time getting my head around this. I'd played humbuckers for years, Dimarzio Tone Zone and Lundgren M6 primarly, then bought a Nelson guitar with low output Nelson singles. I guess they are somewhat filtertron-ish. Anyways, when I play with a fuckload of volume, with the band, it is just the most glorious heavy sound I've ever heard. It cuts like a razor, palm mutes, and has a tiny bit of gnar that is just awesome. But whenever I play by myself I always find the higher output humbuckers more gratifying. They get more saturation, and the lower clarity you get fills out the sound nicely. And also palm mutes hit so hard. But those aspects that make it fun to play by myself just make it disappear a little in a loud context. Not a lot, I mean, I still think my humbucker equipped guitars sound good with the band, but they don't slay like the Nelsons.

If nothing else I say test something really different and see where it gets you - once you dial in the rest of your gear around it to kinda compensate for the lower output/lower fun factor.

goroth wrote:My two cents: I think these days there are better ways to push an amp than via the output of your pickups. Get a heavier amp, use an eq pedal or a booster or something. Pickups should be there to provide the basic eq for the sound you want. But sometimes I have a hard time getting my head around this. I'd played humbuckers for years, Dimarzio Tone Zone and Lundgren M6 primarly, then bought a Nelson guitar with low output Nelson singles. I guess they are somewhat filtertron-ish. Anyways, when I play with a fuckload of volume, with the band, it is just the most glorious heavy sound I've ever heard. It cuts like a razor, palm mutes, and has a tiny bit of gnar that is just awesome. But whenever I play by myself I always find the higher output humbuckers more gratifying. They get more saturation, and the lower clarity you get fills out the sound nicely. And also palm mutes hit so hard. But those aspects that make it fun to play by myself just make it disappear a little in a loud context. Not a lot, I mean, I still think my humbucker equipped guitars sound good with the band, but they don't slay like the Nelsons.

If nothing else I say test something really different and see where it gets you - once you dial in the rest of your gear around it to kinda compensate for the lower output/lower fun factor.

I have always been baffled by your choice of the Nelson but now that shit makes total sense.

TBH I bought it because it was lightweight and sexy as shit. I figured I'd test whatever crappy low output non-humbucking pickups were in it, then chuck a ToneZone in there after a week or two.
But that didn't happen.
There is just this nutso level of clarity, that makes hitting stuff hard so insanely satisfying. And at bedroom levels I just turn the gain up a bit.

I can still get pissed that the output is low - I've gotta turn the volume down on like all my gain pedals so that it doesn't create a massive volume spike (guessing that humbuckers are more compressed, with higher average output and greater perceived volume) - but that's just stupid. Because my pedals sound the same as when I turn them up to volume match the humbuckers. And I have to work a bit harder to get the squealiest of the squealy pinch harmonics. Can still get them but that aren't as gratifying as with higher output humbuckers.

Maybe having a less thick sound from the pickups allows you to lay it on a bit more with the amp and pedals.

We're getting our first proper album mastered now, and the other guitarist was rolling Gibson LP with humbuckers into a JCM800, I was doing Nelson>Elements>clean amp. You'll hear what I mean.

I like low gain pickups (and dirt for that matter) for all of the reasons that you said Goroth. Let the amp do the work!

That being said - there is something really satisfying about a pair of Dirty Fingers going through a Meathead. Heh.

But also – I've played an old 60's Airline Big Horn with lo-fi, low gain single coils through a Sunn Model T, and that shit was glorious - like the sky was ripping open. Different tools for different jobs.

I do think I'd prefer lower output pickups for articulation and separation in a band context though, push to shove.

goroth wrote:TBH I bought it because it was lightweight and sexy as shit. I figured I'd test whatever crappy low output non-humbucking pickups were in it, then chuck a ToneZone in there after a week or two.
But that didn't happen.
There is just this nutso level of clarity, that makes hitting stuff hard so insanely satisfying. And at bedroom levels I just turn the gain up a bit.

I can still get pissed that the output is low - I've gotta turn the volume down on like all my gain pedals so that it doesn't create a massive volume spike (guessing that humbuckers are more compressed, with higher average output and greater perceived volume) - but that's just stupid. Because my pedals sound the same as when I turn them up to volume match the humbuckers. And I have to work a bit harder to get the squealiest of the squealy pinch harmonics. Can still get them but that aren't as gratifying as with higher output humbuckers.

Maybe having a less thick sound from the pickups allows you to lay it on a bit more with the amp and pedals.

We're getting our first proper album mastered now, and the other guitarist was rolling Gibson LP with humbuckers into a JCM800, I was doing Nelson>Elements>clean amp. You'll hear what I mean.

In two guitar bands especially, it sucks if everyone is stepping on each other's toes. Unless you're trying to lock the guitars in together to be one big guitar, in which case you can have similar tones. But there always seems to be some frequency where the guitars are undermining each other. On the other hand, it rocks if the guitars are helping each other out. You're probably providing some definition for the other guy and he's adding some low end for you. It helps to have two different tones. I remember reading an interview with RIvers Cuomo and they were asking him how he got so much definition with such a saturated sound, and he said, "Oh, that's Brian."

My favorite (non-heavy) example is the Clash. Les Paul (or Jr) into Mesa + Telecaster into Music Man. I always think about them when I'm trying to play with another guitar, no matter what the genre.