ilovefuzz.com

royaltrux wrote:Thing is, why would I buy a pedal from some guy I've never heard of?

It doesn't make any sense. Granted ZVEX pedals are overpriced (in my opinion), but at least with those I know I am getting a solid brand.

That's exactly how I found Effector-13 and Devi.
Ok she had a Clip and I was hooked.
And yes She did kind of do similar posts way way back in the day..

Come to think of it, most of the builders on I Love Fuzz kind of fit that 'never heard of them' category for a lot of people.

Now “built to last 50 years” I have no problem with, nor with better parts to sound better, because different caps etc do sound different. This should be backed up with photos and clips though.

Where am I going? Oh

I would like him to come back and make a few posts and let us get to know him before making judgments. And now that he's got clones under his belt, to see if he can come up with any designs of his own.

Now Z pedals, I don't own any, not because of price, but because I just didn't like the sound.

Price is no object, well it is, but If I fall in love with something, I'll save up until I can afford one. (by then they are usually no longer made and have tripled in price)

MM

well the price is what i can't quite accept here...
a fuzz factory clone for $169+shipping...

i'm pretty sure i can get a vexter version for that price...

Now, I'm here to defend this guy. I've passed emails back and forth with him before and he has been nothing but excellent in communications. I haven't managed to order a pedal from him yet due to funds, but this guy seems like a class act so far. I haven't checked lately, but I seem to remember clips on his website as well.

I do believe he's building pedals better than Vex, and at a much better price. This guy is a degree holding Electrical engineer as well. I think you guys are a bit overreactionary to his post. He isn't coming in here and bullshitting that he's part of the ILF community. He's talking about the effect community in general. (Now you'll all just wave me off as some other invader. You guys should try being nicer if you want more people on this forum).

And besides, to quote Vince from ShamWoW, he's german, and the germans make good stuff!

I dunno about your dealings with him but I have my own designs which i'd be happy to sell but still don't feel it right to sell them here just cause it's really devi's here and also you can't call them by the same name... I think that infringes... you can say based on, but the title says woolly mammoth.

If people want clones there are many people that can do it, myself included, but selling clones isn't the best way to go really... especially if there $169 for a plain metal case fuzz factory, I've done them before for people at costs of material and an 8 pack and they had proper facias.

Oh Devi you are such a trickster.

We can argue the merits of cloning to no end (I'm often in favor), my issue is the price he's asking.

I'm sure this guy uses very nice military grade NOS parts, hell maybe they sound a lot better
but it's sorta shady to charge the same price zvex does and advertise them with the same names.

If he's done some tweaks to the circuits I'd like to hear about them...
there were things I liked and didn't like about the ff/wm so if somebody is doing a fresh take on them it would be interesting to see.

morningstaru wrote:Oh Devi you are such a trickster.

We can argue the merits of cloning to no end (I'm often in favor), my issue is the price he's asking.

I'm sure this guy uses very nice military grade NOS parts, hell maybe they sound a lot better
but it's sorta shady to charge the same price zvex does and advertise them with the same names.

I'd agree with that... but what I don't agree with is the 'mojo' part, I mean i've made an original tone bender from old parts for fun, but in all honesty, vintage parts are noisy, unreliable and low tolerance... and telling the tonal difference between seperate components in a fuzz factory (a pedal with about 20 components)
just ain't gunna happen unless you have incredible hearing and therefore have never gigged lol... Germanium transistors yea, ok there is a difference, the rest of the military grade components, ignore it unless it's a really specific build, not a fuzz.

The thing that concerned me is that they're clones of active products. Cloning active (meaning still being sold by the original manufacturer) pedals is fine for personal use. Selling them is a problem for me. Selling one to a friend may not be such a big deal, to cover parts etc. but just selling them!!??

Devi gave out the aenima etc. and the SM etc. schematics, all active pedals. Obviously she doesn't care if people make them. It probably wouldn't hurt her buisness if people sold them either. But, I think that would be wrong.
If I came on here and said I was selling clones of the SM, VFM, aenima, and torn's peaker and they were better than Devi's and only $50 and she was selling overpriced crap, wouldn't that make a few people here angry?

Using a product as a starting point and developing from there (based on ___) isn't a big deal either. A fuzz is a simple circuit. There's probably only so many ways to have a truly unique fuzz. The way these are presented is that they are the same but better. Just my 2 cents.

Cloning of active products i'm against (if your trying to sell them off as your own, I do my own), Z.vex products.. then I couldn't care less, he lies alot in his marketing and his pedals are nothing fancy (other than the lo fi junky etc, i'l admit he put work in there, but the SHO has about 7 components, FF about 15 and the mammoth the same and he charges hugee amounts and he didn't even really design them)

Devi products, seem very original to me, infact i'd be interested where she got her ideas from if she'd give up the info, and thank her for the schematics anyway ( I'd buy devi if I could, but I can't even buy food atm, I need pedals to gig to make money, one day though)

Developing a fuzz is fine, but these just stand to be out right clones with the comment "they sound better" i've used silicon transistors and thought my fuzz factory clone sounded better, but it isn't gospel to all and isn't neccesarily true other than to me.

Being a pedal builder myself, I can never beleive the same but better, unless they redesigned the fuzz face circuit (which is what the fuzz factory was based off) which I highly doubt, it's a few mods at most... Start with a fresh design or don't try and get away with charging high prices cause of claims that have no evidence.

I don;;t have anything against zvex. I also don't own any (because of the price). I do own Metasonix, so it's not spending the money, it's what you get for it. No offense to zvex, but I believe I can get something that fills that spot in my sounds for a lot less.

You are right, there's not much inside some of those pedals and it seems pretty hard to justify that cost to me. But if people are willing to pay it....

Yea, very original. Devi, Aen and Eric's (Metasonix) designs got me back into playing guitar after becoming bored for years. They have such great and interesting products.

It isn't exactly tasteful to whore your clones around for high prices, BUT the fourm
is about free speech. I thought it was way weird to see people jumping on him off the bat. Very unILF. More shortscale.

I think the pile-on mentality stems more from the tight knit community people have created here...

Some people have become VERY comfortable (an understatement ) here and get offended when a carpetbagger swings into town peddling their wares.

haha i dont think he'll be posting here anymore.

morningstaru wrote:I think the pile-on mentality stems more from the tight knit community people have created here...

Some people have become VERY comfortable (an understatement ) here and get offended when a carpetbagger swings into town peddling their wares.

I totally understand. Maybe we should have rules where a noob should have a 50 post count b4 they spam. Otherwise, it kinda sucks dumping in someones thread if he is a member (reguardless of post count) and isn't violating any rules.

ILF is always friendly, helpful and cool. Very minimal (if any) trolling, which is a huge reason why I think this place is awesome! And why it'll continue to grow and be home to a bunch of cool dudes and builders.

Unless you all decide to attack any builders who you think aren't "cool" enough. Lots of fantastic builders start out with clones. Maybe if you guys were a bit more open and friendly and encouraged any sort of interested user, we could see this guy grow into an original and innovative builder. Yeah, I doubt he'll come back now, since this forum has decided that its members are way too cool to accept anything but whats here already.

McHaven wrote:Unless you all decide to attack any builders who you think aren't "cool" enough. Lots of fantastic builders start out with clones. Maybe if you guys were a bit more open and friendly and encouraged any sort of interested user, we could see this guy grow into an original and innovative builder. Yeah, I doubt he'll come back now, since this forum has decided that its members are way too cool to accept anything but whats here already.

There is a difference between being inspired by a pedal and directly ripping it off and charging the same price as the original builder.
Look at his listing for the BOR and FF...he directly advertises it as the "zvex box of rock" and "zvex fuzz factory" as if he was a zvex dealer or the man himself.
Perhaps a slip of the tongue, but I've seen these pedals advertised over on HCFX and EBAY with the same headings, and it is a very important detail to consistantley be guilty of overlooking.

Dwarfcraft, Dr. Scientist, and Malekko have all done clone-ish circuits.
Dudes like Skreddy, DAM, Creepy Fingers, EQD, Blackout Effectors and countless others have all made a living off of this as well.
All added new features and made it their own or offered proper clones of pedals that were no longer available.

This isn't the case with the builder in question.
I see no benefit to the end user with this guy's zvex clones, besides maybe getting the sense of satisfaction over not giving zachary vex your money.