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TPR, Braid, Mineral and JEW all came out after Cap'n Jazz. In some cases (*cough* Jimmy Eat World *cough*) they were widely seen at the time as people who had zero to do with punk hitching their wagon to the next big thing.

I think the thing people miss if you weren't in on the ground floor, and this is totally okay, is that this shit was SO DIFFERENT at the time. And even then not a 100% agreed upon thing. I mean I loved some bands and absolutely loathed other ones that now all get lumped in together. For me there's a massive difference between say Falling Forward (yay) and Mineral (BOOOOOOOOOOOO) that I can't explain apart from saying that well, at the time it felt like one band was on to something pure and the other definitely wasn't. To use your example: Promise Ring were this weirdo cutesy noisy pop thing from ex Cap'n Jazz people who were playing initially aggressive music without the macho cliches of victory bands. Texas is the Reason were ex NYHC dudes trying to play britpop and heading for the big leagues and a world apart from all the midwest stuff.

But I mean like,I'm 15 and hear 'haloed eyes' by Navio Forge (REST IN FUCKING POWER SARAH KIRSCH) for the first time and have my world completely turned on it's ear because it's something I'd never heard before, only had it hinted at in previous bands, and it was a massive thing. The other options for 'punk' back then were like, big hardcore bands all going festival metal and Pennywise or some shit. Then you hear these people doing it simply because just like you, they don't hear music that speaks to them and need to create and that's pretty huge. And hey that one LP is all you got at this month's trip to the record store so that's all you're going to listen to and you're gonna grab it inside and out.

I'm well aware that nostalgia is a huge temper in this but yeah, I just don't see bands then downloading a bunch of influences and copying it to be anywhere near as real and vital as the original stuff. And while that's the same with all music, and I'm sure not all these kids in these bands are that cynical about it either, but the originality, spirit and the ethics of where you stood were MASSIVE in creating that music at the time. I don't think some of you guys realise how insane it looks to lump someone universally reviled as empty and focally opposed to DIY as Carraba was seen at the time in with this huge undercurrent in punk music called 'emo' that existed in the 90s. Like he was the absolute mortal enemy, pinnacle of the selling out and watering down of a scene and culture that took itself way too seriously but definitely pegged itself out as resistant to the mainstream.

I was a kid that was a small part of that scene and I'm disappointed that people just take it and copy it rather than see it for what it meant and running with it to new things. To go back to that example of Navio Forge, right up until her death Sarah Kirsch was still playing in incredible punk, hardcore, emo, screamo whatever bands that were still relevant and still putting out music that was incredible meaningufl, and still firmly opposed to everything to do with the mainstream. In my mid 30s that last Baader Brains EP had the same effect that Navio Forge did when I was that weird kid.

I love Navio Forge. Props.

But disagree with what you said about Chris Carrabba 100%.

Everything you say about him is completely unfounded. Opposed to DIY? WTF?

He literally started out on his own with an acoustic guitar and his heart on his (tattoo) sleeve.

When Chris started Dashboard after having been in Vacant Andys, he was doing something few (Blake Schwarzenbach, Lou Barlow) had done before.

Then it was a novelty for a heavier musician to go acoustic, but now it's practically de rigeur to have a quieter, more introspective side-project.

If you think he's empty, that's cool. But I'm telling you, I did grow up with this music, and as much as you love Navio Forge, etc., that's what Dashboard means to me.

To me Dashboard came along and inspired every softspoken kid to just do it, just grab a guitar, write a song. You don't even need a band.

dude, the legitimacy of deep elm acoustic dork who I never bothered to listen to isn't what I'm talking about though; it's the fact that he was HATED, absolutely fucking loathed, by everyone at the time. Now whether or not that is fair is totally debatable, I don't care about his music enough to get into it. But I'm telling you as someone a part of that scene at the time, that's the way it was.

casecandy wrote: To me Dashboard came along and inspired every softspoken kid to just do it, just grab a guitar, write a song. You don't even need a band.

You say that like its a good thing

daseb wrote:dude, the legitimacy of deep elm acoustic dork who I never bothered to listen to isn't what I'm talking about though; it's the fact that he was HATED, absolutely fucking loathed, by everyone at the time. Now whether or not that is fair is totally debatable, I don't care about his music enough to get into it. But I'm telling you as someone a part of that scene at the time, that's the way it was.

This is factual. Dashboard was reviled.

neonblack wrote:

casecandy wrote: To me Dashboard came along and inspired every softspoken kid to just do it, just grab a guitar, write a song. You don't even need a band.

You say that like its a good thing

like maybe I'm too old but I honestly don't think people get now how much even something like doing a video clip marked you out as being a sellout. DIY was about way more than releasing records and booking shows yourself. It was an explicit, incredibly staunch stance against capitalism as typified by 'the mainstream' of like, fucking EVERYTHING.

I'm sure there are a bunch of bands that would have loved to have gone on to do more commercial shit but the rules didn't let them until the internet came along and flipped shit on it's head. Justin Trosper basically said as much in the liner notes of that last Unwound box set as I recall.

Cris Carrabba is the reason tattoos are lame and safe now. Him and Connor Oberst killed everything that was good about music.

didn't he come from that deep elm safe 'emo' scene of bands that was like the weird nachos flanders style version of punk anyway?

daseb wrote:didn't he come from that deep elm safe 'emo' scene of bands that was like the weird nachos flanders style version of punk anyway?

Don't be mean to casecandy he gets upset and starts talking about all of us like we have the same taste and opinions. But yes exactly. fucking safe as a butterscotch sweet and entirely as unstatisfying.

well to be fair I guess deep elm had Appleseed Cast, I liked them when I first discovered regular sex and downers.

I am so happy you came back to us you don't even know.

Also I feel like for people of a certain age a Dashboard Confessional is a bad handjob in the passenger's seat of someone's mom's car while being forced to listen to shitty music in complete silence. just verwrought teenage emotions backed by an acoustic guitar and ballsack brushing against thigh

And I think that resonates for people of every gender.

ONLY REAL 90S KIDS WILL GET THIS: TEN BANDS THAT WERE 'PUNK' PEOPLE WHO BEAT YOU UP IN HIGHSCHOOL LISTENED TO

D.o.S. wrote:Also I feel like for people of a certain age a Dashboard Confessional is a bad handjob in the passenger's seat of someone's mom's car while being forced to listen to shitty music in complete silence. just verwrought teenage emotions backed by an acoustic guitar and ballsack brushing against thigh

And I think that resonates for people of every gender.

my highschool girlfriend was hardline and loved a lot of euro metalcore. Better, or worse?

YOUR FOOTBALL TEAM DATE RAPES TO DASHBOARD.