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Re: Pedals that run better at 12v?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:48 pm
by gordian knot
morange wrote:True dat. Less actual voltage gain. But it is a word that gets used to mean various things. Knobs get labeled gain when maybe saturation or compression or distortion would be better. And a high gain amp means it distorts. All about context, I guess.
A gain knob may actually be controlling gain with distortion being an effect because of a limit to the available gain
I think that's the problem, people use it sort imprecisely, even incorrectly, so then we have to wade through a bunch of misunderstanding when it's time to tease apart a design or discuss behavior or modification -- that's really why i bothered at all.
Think about how people cowboy tremolo and vibrato. Now when it's time to build the circuit ---- "hey build me a tremolo"...Ok, not too bad. "hey build me a vibrato"....that can be a little more challenging
Re: Pedals that run better at 12v?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:00 pm
by rfurtkamp
Yea, as stated, dodge running digital stuff at non-rated voltage (unless the manufacturer tells you it's ok, which applies to everything) - they generally (almost always) gain nothing from starve or over.
If I want something to have headroom, I take a circuit designed for AC though, it's why I love the Boss GL-100 - so much more range/lower noise floor than any of the gain stuff in pedal format, plus para EQ that probably wouldn't be feasible on a 9v supply0.
Re: Pedals that run better at 12v?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:12 pm
by gordian knot
gotta love para (or at least sweep EQ)
Re: Pedals that run better at 12v?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:13 am
by Barracuda
morange wrote:It's possible you could blow the electrolytic supply filter cap, which is probably rated at 16V or less.
This shit drives me crazy. I always use 50V supply caps. 16 V is too low when people (me) like to tinker and use their 18V supply, or 2 batteries or whatever.
Re: Pedals that run better at 12v?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:45 am
by jrmy
I think my EQD Talons sounds better at 18v than at 9. I haven't tried it at 12, but am guessing that would still give it some extra oomph.
Re: Pedals that run better at 12v?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:04 pm
by morange
Barracuda wrote:morange wrote:It's possible you could blow the electrolytic supply filter cap, which is probably rated at 16V or less.
This shit drives me crazy. I always use 50V supply caps. 16 V is too low when people (me) like to tinker and use their 18V supply, or 2 batteries or whatever.
There are some good reasons to use an electrolytic rated closer to the intended operating voltage. They have a lower ESR, so you get better performance and longer life (or so I've read), and they're smaller, too. Design trade-offs I guess.
http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?doc_id=1279791 wrote:This life-temperature dependence actually impacts how you should derate the voltage on the capacitor. Your first thought might be to increase the capacitor’s voltage rating to minimize the possibility of a dielectric failure. However, doing so can lead to a capacitor with a higher equivalent series resistance (ESR). Because the capacitor typically has a high ripple current stress, this higher resistance leads to extra internal power loss and increased capacitor temperature. The failure rate increases with the increased temperature. In practice, aluminum electrolytic capacitors typically are used at about 80% of their rated voltage.
Re: Pedals that run better at 12v?
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:40 pm
by Barracuda
Go figure. I probably won't switch to the 16V ones simply because I am more likely to put 18V on the supply cap than to operate the pedal at higher than room temp for extended periods of time, but good to know. I am guessing the stress put on supply caps in a 9V pedal is pretty minimal anyway.
Re: Pedals that run better at 12v?
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:44 pm
by morange
Yeah, I was just playing devil's advocate some. Definitely one of the best things about building your own stuff is knowing what kinds of fantastic abuse it'll survive. More power to you.
Re: Pedals that run better at 12v?
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:09 am
by ThurberMingus
smallsnd/bigsnd wrote:when in doubt, ask the manufacturer or check their website before you start running random shit at different voltages.
some pedals can take higher voltages, some can't - there are plenty of valid reasons why.
So uhhh, what kind of voltage can I run into my Mini?
Re: Pedals that run better at 12v?
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:28 pm
by morange
Speaking of caps, I just discovered that these exist. Longer lasting electrolytic capacitors. Mouser has them, called Aluminum Organic Polymer Capacitors. Check them out.
http://www.capacitorlab.com/capacitor-types-polymer/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_capacitor
Re: Pedals that run better at 12v?
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:34 pm
by morange
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
Such a great article. Reminds me of some Alastair Reynolds I read recently. The times we live in, wow.