ilovefuzz.com

I'm in. It would be rad to do one a week so it is at least slightly organized, as well as gives time to ponder/dream, and actually record something with busy schedules. If no one tells me not to, I will be recording my interpretation of that rainbow rock from handful of posts back.

I'm really excited about the emphasis on creating and sharing ideas, not just drooling over pictures of pedals.
Don't get me wrong. I love drooling on pedals.

this sounds rad
i want in, thisll force me to create more than fuck around

This is more or less what happens when you make music anyway, right? Like, that's the whole point of attaching art and titles and names to create the package: it's to elicit and reinforce mood that resonates when you hear the tunes. That's part of the reason why, say, the RZA's best tracks all sound like Kung Fu movies, or why Surf music sounds like Surf music.

In other words, I guess my question is, do people not do this?

Ugly Nora wrote:I love sound and texture. I can play 1 chord over and over and be endlessly enthralled by the subtleties of the changing overtones it creates. I also love simple melodies. I can be endlessly enthralled by being bludgeoned over the head with a simple repetitive melody. I also love questions and answers and finding solutions to problems. I enjoy the thought of representing complex abstract thoughts or emotions with simple tools. Finding simple solutions to not so simple problems.

No, I'm not high. But I have been thinking about all of this and what to do with it, and thought some others may want to join in. So, I thought I would post it here. If no one else is game, that's fine, I'll go at it alone.

I was thinking about picking an abstract idea or phrase, or an emotion, or maybe a picture and recreating it sonically as I perceive it with self-imposed limitations on the tools I use. This approach would have a multipronged effect:

1. Learn to get the most out of the gear I have
2. Increase my problem solving ability
3. Have fun
4. A whole bunch of other shit

I was thinking about limiting myself in the following ways:

1. Only allowed to use 3 pedals maximum, plus a looper pedal
2. Can only use 1 category of pedals at a time (for instance, I couldn't use a reverb and delay at the same time because they are both time-based effects. Or I couldn't use an overdrive and fuzz together because they are both dirt. You get the idea.
3. Finished product can be no longer than 1 minute and 6 seconds. The point is not to write a song, just focus on sound design. But melodies etc are fine if that is your solution to the problem.

So for instance, if the phrase was "plate of shrimp", how could this be interpreted into sound? One person may choose to represent what they see, while another may choose to represent what it smells and tastes like. Another person may recall a time when they got sick off some bad shrimp, while another may remember that he and his wife ate shrimp cocktail at their wedding and choose to represent those emotions.

Said it before, I like the cut of yer jib.
I dig your idea and think it promotes creativity...and am reminded of "beatmaker competitions" seen on different message boards (usually hiphop-oriented) where a sample would be provided/required fare and then a bunch of restrictions imposed (e.g. no VSTs, track length) and whatnot. Kind of like an Iron Chef/cooking show competition without any of the disgusting, stupid ingredients.

Your musings are similar to the approach I've tried to take throughout my musical education and foray into the transition from listener to player.
A phrase from my mother, when commenting on a piece of functional art, imprinted and underpins my sonic philosophy:
"its elegance lies in the simplicity of its form"
I'll frequently play a single, simple riff for 20 minutes...just to see how it develops, where it goes and what creates the aesthetic in my head.

I find great personal gratification in achieving interesting, even spectacular sounding results from simple, often humble means; overcoming limitation and working around/beyond restriction, discovering what I consider to be soundhacks and learning by doing.
I favor, even relish the opportunity to figure things out for myself by feel (and ear) rather than classical training and theory...which I can always pursue down the road.
An inverted approach isn't exactly possible...so I welcome the handicap. For now, anyway.
It's not so much less is more as it is an emphasis on doing more with less.
Granted, this is coming from the guy who once chained 5 DMMs in series
That was my "what if" attempt at building a time machine...because I find myself having the most fun when things feel fresh, where I can get absorbed in the moment and not overthink things...while attempting to take a different perspective.
To (maybe) innovate and distinguish oneself so late in the guitar/amp/pedal/sampler/synth game is a tall order. Gotta be creative.

It's a challenge (accepted)

Ugly Nora wrote: If that's all you have, that's fine and I think that is great. That is actually kind of what I am getting at with this thread: getting the most out of what you got. Having lots of gear is great to have and tons of fun, but it can also be limiting in a way - almost a paralysis by analysis situation. Always searching for next sound. I think it could benefit people to stop searching for a while a make the most out of what they already got. In today's world of mass information and relatively cheap technology, it is fairly easy to solve issues by throwing resources at it. I think this may hinder creativity, ingenuity, and good old fashion gumption. Read some stories about the recording practices back in the 60's or whatever and see how they creatively got around problems that would be complete non-issues today due to technology. Interesting stuff.

Nora

Nailed it here, as well

Edit: Upon further reflection, I'd like to add that with me, personally...it's seldom about searching for the next sound and commonly about gaining knowledge of self while going on adventures and basking in that spirit of exploration. Just following my ears and imagination...not necessarily in that order.

D.o.S. wrote:This is more or less what happens when you make music anyway, right? Like, that's the whole point of attaching art and titles and names to create the package: it's to elicit and reinforce mood that resonates when you hear the tunes. That's part of the reason why, say, the RZA's best tracks all sound like Kung Fu movies, or why Surf music sounds like Surf music.

In other words, I guess my question is, do people not do this?

I doubt most people do it with self-imposed limitations, that was the main point of the exercise.

rustywire wrote: A phrase from my mother, when commenting on a piece of functional art, imprinted and underpins my sonic philosophy:
"its elegance lies in the simplicity of its form"

This is a good way of putting it. This was a philosophy I was trying to explain to my girlfriend the other day when we were listening to William Basinki's Disintegration Loops which she hated. I jokingly said to her "I feel bad for people who can't appreciate this". Now, obviously I was just being playful, and I don't think someone is stupid for not appreciating something like that. I just wish people could get past the simplicity and repetition and see how beautiful something like can be if you let it.

Cool project. I like the sound of this rainbow rock of an idea. Concrete. Evocative. And everyone can see whatever they like within it.

I adhere to some self-imposed limitations in order to spur my creativity, and I live under some other limitations that are just
circumstantial (lack of funds being the most unavoidable and monumental).

Ugly Nora wrote: I just wish people could get past the simplicity and repetition and see how beautiful something like can be if you let it.

As for appreciating minimalism, I feel like minimalism and intricacy are in a constant see-saw within most artforms.
Once a "language" is established, once everybody sort of "gets the rules", then there is a trend towards growing complexity
as people appreciate the fine details. As a result artists start to lace their work with heaping doses of those fine details.

Within the constraints of the form there can be a trend towards growing intricacy until you end up with something like
Prog Rock, at which point paring it back down to simplicity seems refreshing (Punk). The thing is that I see this as a
cyclical thing. Jazz became ornate, with lots of history, theory, adherents to various schools of thought, and then
some people played jazz and pared down what was happening, perhaps taking the "walking" bass line from the pianist's
left hand, and there you have the road to the blues (a minimalist jazz). Eventually people find that too restrictive, and then
intricacy seems exciting again (blues becomes rock, rock becomes operatic and "concept album" oriented).

Certain music sometimes exhibits both tendencies at once. There is "Post-Punk" that carries on with a lot of minimalist
elements, while simultaneously being more complex and ornate than "Punk". At which point people start to call it by a
different name: Jazz-Punk, Math Rock, etc. So you have a minimalism that is start-stop precise, but sometimes has a drone
section, like Eric Satie on acid with feedback. Music can have filigree and embroidery and elaboration of complex forms
that is so tightly packed—like the Book of Kells—that the elaborations achieve an organic simplicity of form that is
closely aligned with our perception of "nature".

In other words, I think this project seems cool.

Ugly Nora wrote:

D.o.S. wrote:This is more or less what happens when you make music anyway, right? Like, that's the whole point of attaching art and titles and names to create the package: it's to elicit and reinforce mood that resonates when you hear the tunes. That's part of the reason why, say, the RZA's best tracks all sound like Kung Fu movies, or why Surf music sounds like Surf music.

In other words, I guess my question is, do people not do this?

I doubt most people do it with self-imposed limitations, that was the main point of the exercise.

I would assume that most creative people find their discretionary income (or lackthereof) to be a more than ample limitation in and of itself, and don't need to substantially augment those hurdles.

Not that there's anything wrong with writing a post for people who are already starting from a baseline of "having lots of gear [that is] great to have and tons of fun" but still need prompts to get the cogs turning and the juices flowing.

I don't think it is really a matter of needing prompts but just a fun and beneficial exercise. I remember David Byrne speaking about how they set limitations when working on their first album, although he didn't say what they were if I recall. I would love to know if anyone knows.

A similar yet different approach might be Brian Eno's Oblique Strategies which are cards with simple phrases that might help you think about things in a different way. I believe David Bowie used these cards when recording Low.

Are you going to participate? I would consider it a personal favor if you did.

On second glance that reads a lot snarkier than it sounded in my head. Obviously I'm going to participate.

I am really into this idea. The forced minimalism aspect is great. I also think it should be a weekly thing with a static changing theme. Should we post entries into this thread? Also pictures are required I assume?

In regards to the rules, with the 3 pedal rule do combined effects count? So is something like an RV3 one effect or two?

BoatRich wrote:I am really into this idea. The forced minimalism aspect is great. I also think it should be a weekly thing with a static changing theme. Should we post entries into this thread? Also pictures are required I assume?

In regards to the rules, with the 3 pedal rule do combined effects count? So is something like an RV3 one effect or two?

Yeah, in my first post I said I would post a subject each Sunday. I think 1 week would be a good amount of time for people to get their stuff in. I guess I will probably start a new thread so that it will be cleaner, and all rules etc will be in my first post on the first page. That way, anyone who hasn't been following this thread can jump in and join the fun. Hopefully it lasts more than a week.

Pictures wouldn't be necessary, but you should post what pedals you use and the chain. This is not meant to validate your claims and make sure you didn't cheat, but rather because this is an exercise about using gear and we love gear and we want to know how you did it.

Regarding the combined effect rule, that is something I have been thinking about for a few days, and am welcome to suggestions. What I was thinking was that if it was a combination that was basically a huge part or essential to the pedal's identity, it would be fine. For example, I have some modulated delay pedals like the Disaster Transport Sr and Meet Maude. I think the modulation is pretty ingrained in those pedals even though the modulation can be turned off. Heck, the Disaster Transport even has a reverb knob. So, for something like this, I would feel comfortable using another modulation pedal like a flanger with it as ultimately I would classify those 2 pedals as time-based pedals, not modulation pedals. At the end of the day though, this exercise is really for you, not me. So, if you think using a pedal like that would be "cheating" and/or would prevent you from getting the most out of this exercise, then I would say don't use it.

On a similar note, someone mentioned they thought using reverb and delay at the same time was fine because he considered one time based, and one spatial. I understand that point, but I would like to lump those pedals into the same category. The reason is because the reverb+delay combination is such a bread and butter combination, that I think everyone probably always uses these effects together on a normal basis. I like the thought of forcing you to decide between the two, and taking you out of that comfort zone.

Reverb and delay are the same like chorus and flanger are the same.
Very similar...even cut from the same cloth....and usually sound best if you pick 1 or the other at a time.
Also FWIW reverb is a rapid sequence of decaying echoes with *low delay time* and *medium-high repeats*

While I do enjoy layering modulation, time-manipulation and creating dense textures; K.-ing I.S.S. and letting elements shine (in context) has been a focus even before my technical approach has elevated to mostly-less-than-flattering. It almost forces you to get better to sound better....challenge accepted style
Because playing faster, louder, harder is a proven way to mask mistakes and sloppy or barely-effective technique. As is sonic chop-suey.
Airspace is underrated, everything sounds bigger when there's enough of [it]

Ugly Nora wrote:This was a philosophy I was trying to explain to my girlfriend the other day when we were listening to William Basinki's Disintegration Loops which she hated. I jokingly said to her "I feel bad for people who can't appreciate this". Now, obviously I was just being playful, and I don't think someone is stupid for not appreciating something like that. I just wish people could get past the simplicity and repetition and see how beautiful something like can be if you let it.

i cant get into those pieces because i dont like the loops enough to listen to them disintegrate, but in theory, yes.

it also relates to peoples ability to concentrate and pay attention and appreciate subtleties.
making the time/effort to just watch the sunset for 20mins, for example, or listen to the clatter clatter of a train or wind in the trees.
we tend to tune these things out and not pay them attention.

as for your project, i like the idea and would say "i'll try" to take part
its good to impose restrictions and work within those boundarys, although 1min 6 sounds a bit short for texture.
that said i dont want to commit myself to listening to 5-10 other peoples hour long pieces every week, so short is good

This is relevant to the sound design aspect of this I think...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-LTyevbcgo[/youtube]

Big Data allows us to pinpoint hot sounds and then ape them to death...