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BOTH but at different times, is not like getting older, but like maturing and condensing. maybe tmv is not the future of atdi, is useless to compare past and present...

some pointers:

ATDI
1) el gran orgo, must be one of the ugliest EP ever, uglier than the ones before, its unlistenable.
2) relationships of command, its a diamond, maybe some people wont like the genre but the sound of the recording, those guitars, just a fucking timeless as fucking miles davis trumpet.

TMV
1) CONCERTINA, looking at it on a musicological perspective, it's made on a romantic bolero structure, try to get water from a rock, they made something unheard, at least to me. maybe they remind of santana-latin-boogaloo rock or king crimson but they just made alchemy on that song.
2) not that ATDI didn't ruled live, i never saw them then, but nowdays they throw 2:40 and up sets, so anytime they are near to town its good to enjoy the show, its just nonstop forehead-pounding massiveness.

i dont know what point i wanted to make... just voted for TMV because they have more play counts in my life than ATDI

in/casino/out is probably one of my top 3 records ever. ever ever.

ATDI was a fantastic band on every level. Songwriting, instrumental ability, energy, live performance. Aggressive, dangerous music held together by momentum. Awesome.

The Mars Volta had one album that had a couple places where it sounded like ATDI and were aight, and a bunch of aimless noodling. Subsequent releases took everything awesome about ATDI and pooped on it. They do not have the cohesive compositional abilities to get as prog as they want to; instead, they wander aimlessly between sections of a song.

1,2,3, Pull Out! wrote:

smile_man wrote:I disagree, I find TMV work to be hit-or-miss. I love all ATD-I (except the first EPs, )

Oh those first EPs

I don't think this has been brought up enough


ATDI is superior, although the first two volta records, and their first EP were amazing. Then, i don't know what happened.

I wanted to "get" The Mars Volta... I really did.

You don't have to "get" The Mars Volta to be able to listen to it. Mars Volta doesn't get Mars Volta it's up for interpretation that's the idea. A lot of people who claim they can't stand it or don't like it always seem to talk through every moment and ruin it. If that's the way it was when I listened to it I wouldn't like it either I'd rather just talk without an album playing. The Mars Volta make records as though they are movies and less like what people are used to hearing. They want those awkward moments to make you guess what's happening. If you don't have the patience to listen then stop.

As for which "band" is better there is no answer. They have the same creative unit writing all the records, but in totally different manner. ATD-I wrote all their songs traditionally they, sort of, jammed out their ideas and created parts, beginning, middle, and end to what Omar had roughly planned out. When TMV writes their records 6 of the 8 people in the band don't know what's happening through the record except that the part they are playing that they were taught minutes before recording.

The question is: Which period do you think Cedric and Omar were really their most creative?

Rory wrote:The question is: Which period do you think Cedric and Omar were really their most creative?

Frances The Mute. hands down. That record is better than any movie i've ever seen. It's beautiful. It's a masterpiece. It's underrated. It's a shame that was the last thing Cedric & Omar did together that wasn't trash, I was really looking forward to an album one upping that one!

Just Remember, Jim Ward was part of ATDI too. Omar was a fucking mess in those days, and if you watch 80% of the live videos he's making a huge mess of everything. In fact, they were pretty terrible live in general. Omar tends to go off on his tangents... Some good, some really, really uninspired. He still does.

That still doesn't mean that the records weren't amazing. I'd say they are two completely different beasts.

Wizard wrote:

Rory wrote:The question is: Which period do you think Cedric and Omar were really their most creative?

Omar was a fucking mess in those days, and if you watch 80% of the live videos he's making a huge mess of everything.

That's because he hated the sound of guitars.

Wizard wrote:

Rory wrote:The question is: Which period do you think Cedric and Omar were really their most creative?

Frances The Mute. hands down. That record is better than any movie i've ever seen. It's beautiful. It's a masterpiece. It's underrated. It's a shame that was the last thing Cedric & Omar did together that wasn't trash, I was really looking forward to an album one upping that one!

Just Remember, Jim Ward was part of ATDI too. Omar was a fucking mess in those days, and if you watch 80% of the live videos he's making a huge mess of everything. In fact, they were pretty terrible live in general. Omar tends to go off on his tangents... Some good, some really, really uninspired. He still does.

That still doesn't mean that the records weren't amazing. I'd say they are two completely different beasts.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, except that I actually think Amputechture, in many ways, WAS a step up from Francis. The songs are just as experimental and out-there, but more concise somehow. Francis had many sections that were bordering on free-form. And while that's cool, I think they are ultimately better when they do structure themselves. Tetragrammaton and Day of the Baphomets are the two songs I would point to as showing growth from songs that perform similar functions on Francis (Cygnus Vismund Cygnus and Cassandra Gemini). Don't get me wrong, I love both albums, but I think Amputechture is not given its due from the Francis fans