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Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:48 pm**

misterstomach wrote:
D.o.S. wrote:It definitely sounds like Liturgy.

In that it's fucking garbage. I guess the novelty of listening to MGMT cover Venetian Snares is nice for a spin if you're trying to scare away your booty call in the morning or something.
this would pretty much be the perfect record review for this.

i couldn't make it through the song. that was so fucking awful. granted, i went into it with somewhat of a closed mind because i fucking hate liturgy. but that was certainly not what i expected. it was way worse, but somehow seems appropriate for a bunch of hipster jerk offs who weren't really cut out to be a metal band anyway. coked up self indulgent dance music seems way more up their alley.

did anyone read the singer's "manifesto" on black metal a few years ago? it really moved them from being a band i barely heard of and didn't care about or listen to to being something i truly hated and wished i could destroy. it read like the rant of a pretentious art school rich kid who just discovered black metal enlightening us all not only to their vast knowledge of the form, but also as to how they were revolutionizing the genre. which is exactly what it was. it was both ridiculous and insulting at the same time. one of the most pretentious things i've read.

i know i'm opening myself to blowback about how i'm close minded or "what's wrong with bands doing something new or different" or how i probably just want everyone to rehash transylvanian hunger for all time. none of which is true. i'm all for bands bringing something new to the table and it doesn't happen enough. and i'm all for bands changing, as long as there's some hint of sincerity in anything their doing or have done. but from how i see it, liturgy's previous material was trite garbage made by pretentious fucks, who were essentially tourists in the metal world telling us all how it should be done. and this new material is also trite garbage, but is basically the signpost of them moving on to the next thing. don't let the doorknob hit you on the way out.

at least the drum machine can actually keep time.

Yeah, I remember both his 'manifesto' and the whole hoopla surrounding them.
Now, I'm an outsider to the black metal scene, but I still found the whole thing to be a bit perplexing. Not the fact that he was hated, mostly for the reasons you listed; that was pretty understandable. What I scratched my head at was the degree of sheer homicidal vitriol with which he was hated. I thought it reflected rather poorly on the black metal community; like enough of them truly believed that one girlish hipster from Brooklyn really could ruin their subculture forever.
That was just my impression, at least.

pelliott wrote:
misterstomach wrote: at least the drum machine can actually keep time.

So am I really the only one who liked Greg Fox's drumming?
Those snare rolls were insane!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx3aMrp9A08[/youtube]

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:41 pm**

Not crazy about the new track. It's ok.

I like some of their other stuff a lot though.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:19 pm**

Pentametre wrote: Yeah, I remember both his 'manifesto' and the whole hoopla surrounding them.
Now, I'm an outsider to the black metal scene, but I still found the whole thing to be a bit perplexing. Not the fact that he was hated, mostly for the reasons you listed; that was pretty understandable. What I scratched my head at was the degree of sheer homicidal vitriol with which he was hated. I thought it reflected rather poorly on the black metal community; like enough of them truly believed that one girlish hipster from Brooklyn really could ruin their subculture forever.
That was just my impression, at least.

I'm hardly kvlt enough to speak for anyone else, but I think the really insulting thing about it is that it trivialized a form of music, and by extension all forms of more extreme music, for, uh, the right to write a thesis about being able to play that sort of music, which would seem to be buying into all the same conventions that, on the face of it, the form is trying to address.

If you want to start a black metal band, start a black metal band. Don't rename blast beats in a marketing scheme to get Vice to write about your band.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:49 pm**

I thought the last half of this song was way better than the first half. the first half is too repetitive. I'm not really into the vocals, it just sounds kind of lazy?
I don't really understand why so many people rag on Hendrix' manifesto, I mean, who gives a shit? Sure maybe it's pretentious but I thought Aesthetica was a fucking awesome album. there's a lot more pretentious artists that are a lot worse at music, but I guess writing a manifesto about such an elitist genre really puts a target on you. For me the manifesto just told me that this guy really believed in his music, so good for him. I guess he's like the Kanye West of American black metal or something?

Pentametre wrote: Yeah, I remember both his 'manifesto' and the whole hoopla surrounding them.
Now, I'm an outsider to the black metal scene, but I still found the whole thing to be a bit perplexing. Not the fact that he was hated, mostly for the reasons you listed; that was pretty understandable. What I scratched my head at was the degree of sheer homicidal vitriol with which he was hated. I thought it reflected rather poorly on the black metal community; like enough of them truly believed that one girlish hipster from Brooklyn really could ruin their subculture forever.
That was just my impression, at least.

agreed

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:36 pm**

Can we agree on "the Riff Raff of American Black Metal" ?

Posted: **Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:55 am**

D.o.S. wrote:Don't rename blast beats in a marketing scheme to get Vice to write about your band.

i kind of took it more as their drummer couldn't blast consistently, so they came up with a new name for that beat to pretend they were doing something new. but still... same idea.

ChetMagongalo wrote:there's a lot more pretentious artists that are a lot worse at music

i don't know. he may not set the record, but he definitely gets into the upper ranks.

Posted: **Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:30 am**

Greg Fox is definitely the best part of Liturgy, but I'd rather listen to Guardian Alien any day.

My disdain for BM snobs is about on par with that for appropriationist hipsters.

Posted: **Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:39 am**

John wrote:Greg Fox is definitely the best part of Liturgy, but I'd rather listen to Guardian Alien any day.

My disdain for BM snobs is about on par with that for appropriationist hipsters.

i'm with you on that. i may come off as a bm snob in some internet posts where there is no context, but i'm far from it. it's just that i love the good parts of the genre and the good stuff means a lot to me. i have little patience for the weird neo nazi chronic masturbators living in their mom's basement wasting their lives on the internet telling everyone what's really trve black metal. who cares what's in line with some meaningless standard? i mostly seek good music that feels sincere (and isn't propaganda for an ideology that i find abhorrent). and i guess that stands true with any musician i'm interested in, regardless of genre. liturgy has just for a long time struck me as some of the worst from the appropriationist hipster end of the spectrum.

Posted: **Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:27 pm**

agreed 100% that Greg Fox is the best part of that band (and every band he's in, honestly).

i can't believe anyone who's seen him play in person thinks he's not totally in control of the push/pull blast thing he does in that band.

that guitarist guy needs to keep his mouth shut.

Posted: **Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:31 am**

the whole album is streaming now
http://www.npr.org/2015/03/15/392100467 ... e-ark-work

it's completely all over the place.. instrumentation, structure, everything.
i'm not going to sing praise for it until i can listen all the way through a few times, but so far it's definitely one of the most unique albums i've heard in a while.

Posted: **Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:50 am**

misterstomach wrote: at least the drum machine can actually keep time.

are you referring to the changing tempo of the blast beats? if so, it's intentionally changing tempo and the reason for that is reflected in the manifestato you mentioned. Greg Fox is pretty fine at keeping time.

Ive bever listened to a full liturgy song, its not my style, but I found the manifesto interesting. Pretentious? Sure. But its an interesting perspective of analyzing music.

Also I dont get the whole "tourist" thing, unless there's ssome back story im missing. Why do people have to prove themselves of something to play metal or anything related to metal?

EDIT: I read more of your other posts, and I get more of where you're coming from, but I still don't underatand the need to somehow be "legitimate" to play metal. no hard feelings duder

Posted: **Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:00 am**

@kbi -- it's largely the same complaint that people throw at, say, Iggy Azalea.

That NPR write up is gold. "unfairly disparaged the band." I'm sure that Nickelback is "unfairly disparaged" too.

Some choice gems:

It's so jarring at first that you might find yourself wondering if this is the work of a charlatan

Hey now, this is unfairly disparaging!

going as far to hint at using electronics and, most interestingly, "bells."

aka he finally heard the Swans reunion albums. How forward thinking!

But the deeper into it you delve, the more its audacity and imagination start to bloom

Stomach basically nailed how I feel about it: that it's insincere and appropriationist in its use of "black metal" and I maintain that the whole association is a schtick to get people to talk about their fairly uninteresting band. The first track has nearly every bad earmark from Calver-era Hawkwind, the bells from the new Swans albums, and has some blasting and tremelo behind it. The second track doesn't seem much different. My feelings on the single remain the same from the first post. I guess if your record collection didn't include either of those bands or a single black metal album, you might think this is gripping stuff that has never been done before ever ever ever ever ever, and anyone who doesn't like it is clearly just a corpsepaint wearing hater.

If this is me being reactionary or closed minded, so be it, but that's not new or interesting, it's just fucking lame.

They may very well be nice people, though.

edit: The opening riff to Father Vorizen is pretty awesome. I like that track.

Posted: **Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:33 am**

I thought the same thing about the bells

I started listening to the stream. Still not really my thing thus far.

D.o.S. wrote:@kbi -- it's largely the same complaint that people throw at, say, Iggy Azalea.

I feel like these dont really equate? But I cant really think of a good reason as to why at the moment...

Posted: **Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:58 am**

it's not an explicitly racial form of cultural appropriation, is why.

Posted: **Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:09 pm**

Well... that sounds about right actually. Im still gonna think on it though.

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