Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:32 pm
What a compelling argument.Uncle Grandfather wrote:Do it.
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Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:35 pm
If it's modulation you want, then a tape echo isn't going to provide it.
Unless it's digital fakery using a LFO badly (which is what *all* of them I've ever heard) do - and why the only sim I use lets me turn the modulation dead off.
Unless it's digital fakery using a LFO badly (which is what *all* of them I've ever heard) do - and why the only sim I use lets me turn the modulation dead off.
Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:59 pm
I usually use delay at <600 ms. And I don't really dig that weird tape warble. I just want that warmth.
Maybe I want a DMM tho...or a DM-2 again. Maybe shoot for the fences and try to find a DM-1.
Maybe I want a DMM tho...or a DM-2 again. Maybe shoot for the fences and try to find a DM-1.
Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:33 pm
DM-2 isn't going to get you 600+ ms either.
The old stuff is very, very limited - my first more than a second digidelay was the then astronomically priced ($250) PS-2 which I got not because of pitch-shifting but because it had 2s of delay.
That was almost 100 hours of minimum wage work after taxes then.
The old stuff is very, very limited - my first more than a second digidelay was the then astronomically priced ($250) PS-2 which I got not because of pitch-shifting but because it had 2s of delay.
That was almost 100 hours of minimum wage work after taxes then.
Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:36 pm
I put the wrong symbol. I'd say something like "long day", but it hasn't been. Error corrected. I really only use super short delay.
Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:50 pm
1. Go online and order El Cap...dondon wrote:Walk me through this one.
2. Wait...
3. Plug it in when it arrives...
4. Chain it with Donny Day...
5. Enter Nirvana...
Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:34 am
Get a vintage DMM, seriously
I own one. Sure, it's not dead old stock, because I bought it busted and had to have it rebuilt... honestly, one of the stock chips was busted, too, so now it's running only on one original and one replaced chips. It was sort of cheap, but then again, about two months of tech work (Scruffie) went into that.
it's still the most magical delay I've ever heard and I have a hard time not using it everywhere
Can't wait to put it all over the fucking album i'll be recording this summer. Even Scruffie, who got it recently for some readjustments (resetting the bias and a bit of tinkering with the power section, which currently runs on charge pump as it was easier than getting an original power section) said it sort of blew him away when he plugged it in again.
And for me, the limitations are actually a big plus. I've had pedals with tap tempo and extra delay time, but the DMM taught me how to use what you have. It taught me to like short delay times and use them in places where i'd use longer times before. And dude, that character... it really makes every part you use it on better and so pleasant to the ears. And the wall of delay the repeats saturate into are crazy. It's my go-to pedal for anything... these sort of hi-fi but still heavily coloured repeats...
so yeah, get it, man. Unless you are into the commitment with the tape echos, which I get. If you want it to be your baby, I get it. With the DMM, you get a pedal you can tour with, but it's a pretty "service-less" piece of gear
P.S. I have a DM-2 clone, too. It's very different, sonically, plus it's able of pretty clean 500ms of delay as well. It's much bouncier, meaning the repeats don't blend that well into your sound, so it works better for certain uses - right now, I put it in front of my dirt for crazy aggressive noisy leads... It's cool for what it does, but it doesn't really compare to how the repeats on the DMM interact and saturate.
I own one. Sure, it's not dead old stock, because I bought it busted and had to have it rebuilt... honestly, one of the stock chips was busted, too, so now it's running only on one original and one replaced chips. It was sort of cheap, but then again, about two months of tech work (Scruffie) went into that.
it's still the most magical delay I've ever heard and I have a hard time not using it everywhere
Can't wait to put it all over the fucking album i'll be recording this summer. Even Scruffie, who got it recently for some readjustments (resetting the bias and a bit of tinkering with the power section, which currently runs on charge pump as it was easier than getting an original power section) said it sort of blew him away when he plugged it in again.And for me, the limitations are actually a big plus. I've had pedals with tap tempo and extra delay time, but the DMM taught me how to use what you have. It taught me to like short delay times and use them in places where i'd use longer times before. And dude, that character... it really makes every part you use it on better and so pleasant to the ears. And the wall of delay the repeats saturate into are crazy. It's my go-to pedal for anything... these sort of hi-fi but still heavily coloured repeats...
so yeah, get it, man. Unless you are into the commitment with the tape echos, which I get. If you want it to be your baby, I get it. With the DMM, you get a pedal you can tour with, but it's a pretty "service-less" piece of gear
P.S. I have a DM-2 clone, too. It's very different, sonically, plus it's able of pretty clean 500ms of delay as well. It's much bouncier, meaning the repeats don't blend that well into your sound, so it works better for certain uses - right now, I put it in front of my dirt for crazy aggressive noisy leads... It's cool for what it does, but it doesn't really compare to how the repeats on the DMM interact and saturate.
Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:08 am
Yeah, I wanted a Fulltone TTE in the worst way back in 2011.
But the more I thought about it, the less I wanted to be bothered with or distracted by the constant maintenance...because I heart delay as much as I heart fuzz...perhaps more so...certainly before so, chronologically.
Then as if a sign from the delay gods...an old DMM popped up semi-locally just prior to spring 2012...and I pounced.
I've gotta echo DarkAxel's sentiment here...
...consider a DMM...but to also echo rfurtkamp...it's something else.
It surely cant be expected to substitute an actual tape echo, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing...similar to the UniVibe being born from trying to simulate Leslie cabs. It's a happy accident-box if there ever were one.
Still, it's the closest-to-tape-echo bucket-brigade delay I've experienced, in terms of the repeat decay/taper. I've yet to hear other delays getting 130+ repeats, when FEEDBACK is set on the brink of oscillation, without the signal falling off a cliff or running away into uncontrollable choppiness at the end. Digital or analog.
My unit arrived with gremlins...and no shortage of *limitations* that are often lamented by people who really want the behavior of digital delays.
It still could benefit from some bench time...but it sounds so good as-is I don't want to mess with ANYTHING.
The intrinsic character of the repeats and the textures created with minimal through maximum modulation, in both modes make it all worthwhile.
It's an effect you play to, not just play with, whether set-and-forget or twiddling knobs. Its oscillation stands as my favorite of any delay, ever.
My unit is from the 80s, but I'm still in the market for another 90s unit using (4)MN3008 chips...because they can (and many do) sound just as great...and one can swap in 4 MN3005s for some superdelay insanity
In any event, I think big-box is the way to go. They will hold value and always be in demand...plus they can be serviced and restored, even brought back from the dead. IDK about the XO series.
I'd still like to get a tape echo...but that's the kind of thing I plan to keep safe in studio and use on records.
Donny, I've seen the layers of dirt on some of your setups. You definitely don't want that anywhere near a tape machine.
But the more I thought about it, the less I wanted to be bothered with or distracted by the constant maintenance...because I heart delay as much as I heart fuzz...perhaps more so...certainly before so, chronologically.
Then as if a sign from the delay gods...an old DMM popped up semi-locally just prior to spring 2012...and I pounced.
I've gotta echo DarkAxel's sentiment here...
...consider a DMM...but to also echo rfurtkamp...it's something else.It surely cant be expected to substitute an actual tape echo, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing...similar to the UniVibe being born from trying to simulate Leslie cabs. It's a happy accident-box if there ever were one.
Still, it's the closest-to-tape-echo bucket-brigade delay I've experienced, in terms of the repeat decay/taper. I've yet to hear other delays getting 130+ repeats, when FEEDBACK is set on the brink of oscillation, without the signal falling off a cliff or running away into uncontrollable choppiness at the end. Digital or analog.
My unit arrived with gremlins...and no shortage of *limitations* that are often lamented by people who really want the behavior of digital delays.
It still could benefit from some bench time...but it sounds so good as-is I don't want to mess with ANYTHING.
The intrinsic character of the repeats and the textures created with minimal through maximum modulation, in both modes make it all worthwhile.
It's an effect you play to, not just play with, whether set-and-forget or twiddling knobs. Its oscillation stands as my favorite of any delay, ever.
My unit is from the 80s, but I'm still in the market for another 90s unit using (4)MN3008 chips...because they can (and many do) sound just as great...and one can swap in 4 MN3005s for some superdelay insanity
In any event, I think big-box is the way to go. They will hold value and always be in demand...plus they can be serviced and restored, even brought back from the dead. IDK about the XO series.
I'd still like to get a tape echo...but that's the kind of thing I plan to keep safe in studio and use on records.
Donny, I've seen the layers of dirt on some of your setups. You definitely don't want that anywhere near a tape machine.
Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:34 am
I did have a chance to thoroughly test the XO DMM, because my vintage unit got sent for service about a week before my last show with the band. So during that week it got played at home, at rehearsal and during the actual gig.
Do not get it. I know, I'm being too picky, because I'm used to the vintage one, but that thing is so BORING. Much less repeats, the repeats don't decay nearly as nicely (it's not even in the same game, it's a whole different world), the modulation seemed much more artificial. And overall, the character is just... there's not that typical colouration of the repeats, they ARE darker (because that's how analog delay sounds DERPDERP) but they since they're voiced differently, they don'T "blend" with your signal that well, they're either in the background or standing out too much, there's no middle ground... It's a whole new pedal. In a way they reminded me more of the Memory Boy/Toy line than Deluxe Memory Man
NEVER try an XO DMM and decide you don't like DMM. Don't even consider it just a modern take on the classic circuit. Do not waste your money on it.
For quite lesser price, Wampler Faux Tape Echo (especially the older, non-tap version) can get you much more interesting and much more fun delay. Hell - get any Catalinbread delay. I feel that all the XO DMM has is the name on top of it, but there really isn't much connection to what it used to mean
my $0.02
Do not get it. I know, I'm being too picky, because I'm used to the vintage one, but that thing is so BORING. Much less repeats, the repeats don't decay nearly as nicely (it's not even in the same game, it's a whole different world), the modulation seemed much more artificial. And overall, the character is just... there's not that typical colouration of the repeats, they ARE darker (because that's how analog delay sounds DERPDERP) but they since they're voiced differently, they don'T "blend" with your signal that well, they're either in the background or standing out too much, there's no middle ground... It's a whole new pedal. In a way they reminded me more of the Memory Boy/Toy line than Deluxe Memory Man
NEVER try an XO DMM and decide you don't like DMM. Don't even consider it just a modern take on the classic circuit. Do not waste your money on it.
For quite lesser price, Wampler Faux Tape Echo (especially the older, non-tap version) can get you much more interesting and much more fun delay. Hell - get any Catalinbread delay. I feel that all the XO DMM has is the name on top of it, but there really isn't much connection to what it used to mean
my $0.02
Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:00 am
I had a DMM for a while and it's one of those delays that I really regret letting go. I will echo that the repeats are magical. My particular unit didn't have the best headroom, but I didn't even care because it was one of the best delays I'd used in terms of the repeats. It felt like even going into one amp you were playing stereo. I had an El Cap at the same time and sold the El Cap cause the DMM blew it out of the water. It was nuts
Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:06 am
Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:39 am
Yeah, headroom is not something of a premium in stock DMM units...but using a buffered pedal in front...especially an eq can be night/day.
As far as El Cap/DMM threads go...I've seen many more instances of skully's story than anyone claiming to have replaced their DMM with an El Cap without sooner or later changing their mind. In general I feel like they would be more complimentary of each other instead of adversarial. Strymon fans tend to be overzealous, though.
There's no shortage of gear forum guys who claim to have "replaced all their delays with a Timeline" but cant seem to give a straight answer of "how to make it a (big box) DMM" or indicate they know how a DMM is *supposed to* sound...or if they even like the sound to begin with. The big box versions are the *anti-digital* but from every secondhand testimony I've read (like DarkAxel's) plus using my own ears @youtube...the DMM XO is much brighter and even *more digital* in its behavior...and perhaps that's the reference point the Timeline faithful are attempting to match.
As far as El Cap/DMM threads go...I've seen many more instances of skully's story than anyone claiming to have replaced their DMM with an El Cap without sooner or later changing their mind. In general I feel like they would be more complimentary of each other instead of adversarial. Strymon fans tend to be overzealous, though.
There's no shortage of gear forum guys who claim to have "replaced all their delays with a Timeline" but cant seem to give a straight answer of "how to make it a (big box) DMM" or indicate they know how a DMM is *supposed to* sound...or if they even like the sound to begin with. The big box versions are the *anti-digital* but from every secondhand testimony I've read (like DarkAxel's) plus using my own ears @youtube...the DMM XO is much brighter and even *more digital* in its behavior...and perhaps that's the reference point the Timeline faithful are attempting to match.
Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:44 am
Yeah, if I didn't need money when I had both I would have kept them both, cause like Rusty said they were both good at different things.
When I had my TimeLine, I really enjoyed it because I literally plugged it in and recorded it straight out of the box without tweaking and it sounded studio quality. It was nuts. But I found myself just using tape style repeats, all the time haha
When I had my TimeLine, I really enjoyed it because I literally plugged it in and recorded it straight out of the box without tweaking and it sounded studio quality. It was nuts. But I found myself just using tape style repeats, all the time haha
Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:13 pm
you know... characterizing the XO's sound is super hard. Because in a way it feels darker (softer? idk) but at the same time, it feels cleaner and clearerrustywire wrote:There's no shortage of gear forum guys who claim to have "replaced all their delays with a Timeline" but cant seem to give a straight answer of "how to make it a (big box) DMM" or indicate they know how a DMM is *supposed to* sound...or if they even like the sound to begin with. The big box versions are the *anti-digital* but from every secondhand testimony I've read (like DarkAxel's) plus using my own ears @youtube...the DMM XO is much brighter and even *more digital* in its behavior...and perhaps that's the reference point the Timeline faithful are attempting to match.
My DMM definitely feels analog in the character of the repeats, still pretty clear, just heavily coloured. But you've got some point about the almost "digital-like" behaviour, h onestly, I didn't feel much difference between the XO ad the PT2399 digital "analog-voiced" delays I've owned before (EQD DT, two Wampler FTEs, Malekko E616...)
Re: I want a tape echo. Walk me through this one.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:22 pm
Wanting a DMM so much right now. Then I see it so huge on pedalboards and I don't even know what I want anymore.
More on topic: The RE-201 sounds sooooo good. Add onto that the feeling you get playing with one and hearing the tape softly swirling through and lush delays coming out of your amp. It'll make you play differently than using an RE-20, although the RE-20 will likely sound practically the same.
More on topic: The RE-201 sounds sooooo good. Add onto that the feeling you get playing with one and hearing the tape softly swirling through and lush delays coming out of your amp. It'll make you play differently than using an RE-20, although the RE-20 will likely sound practically the same.