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Aren't there just a few of those Magma pre's in existence?

i think you're thinking of the pedal version, there's a shop 'round here that's had the rack one for a while.

You could probably honestly find the actual Sunn cheaper

im looking around and can't really find many affordable tube heads. I see some hybrids, and some really expensive low watt heads.

How many tube watts would one need for small club gigs with a loud drummer? 100w?

Deltaphoenix wrote:IMO, in general, pre amps are best for people that don't bring an amp to a gig (go into the board) or for ease of recording.

Yep, that's me

neonblack wrote:Oh man, how do you like the Meatsmoke? Its definitely on my wish list. Instant Brian Cook? I worry that it would be too mushy and boomy, not enough attack. Am I way off?

It's different. Rusty Box worked for me very well, I like it clean tone (although I don't like it's drive, I really don't understand it). It took me some time to adjust for Meatsmoke. I had to play with EQ, for my taste it basically doesn't have any highs until the knob is on 3 o'clock, however low end is much much better than on Rusty. It is mooshy and boomy with all knobs at 12, but you can get plenty of attack with it. And drive is terrific, so much texture. I had to change settings on all my dirt pedals so they sound good with Meatsmoke, I found that Meatsmoke really likes the Elements Overall, I think I'm going to replace Rusty Box with Meatsmoke, however I'm not sure I'm ready to part with Rusty Box yet.

neonblack wrote:im looking around and can't really find many affordable tube heads. I see some hybrids, and some really expensive low watt heads.

How many tube watts would one need for small club gigs with a loud drummer? 100w?

For bass you could get away with 100 watts cranked but don't expect it to be clean at all.

Derelict78 wrote:

neonblack wrote:im looking around and can't really find many affordable tube heads. I see some hybrids, and some really expensive low watt heads.

How many tube watts would one need for small club gigs with a loud drummer? 100w?

For bass you could get away with 100 watts cranked but don't expect it to be clean at all.

Really it depends on what you mean by "clean"

Magma = Beta =/= what this guy is looking for.

Having owned two Rusty Boxes, a TS-50B (the amp they're based on) and a TS-120B (a TS-50B with a 5 band EQ added), I can definitely say that you should prooooobably just try the RB with a higher wattage power amp, and the gain a lot lower. I've been using a variant of that sound, and I've done a lot of different things with it. THEN AGAIN I MIGHT BE BIASED.

The Faustone Valve Klipper I always kinda saw as more a beefy boost than a pre-amp, even though it really is a pre-amp section of an amp. But, no EQ.

I've used a beta as a pre for recording a few times, and at a lot of shows/practices, and I can confidently say that if you don't like the Rusty Box's overall limiting sound and are looking for a more beefy sound or a more expansive EQ, BETA WILL NOT WORK. I thought the RB was only mids until i got a Beta. It literally is the most midd-y and crusty and weird sounding amp I've ever used. It sure doesn't sound tube-y, or like anything but a beta. It rips, don't get me wrong, but it is what it is.

(Blending a Beta Lead pre-out with a mic'd Sunn 1000s into a 1x15 for Bass VI sounded tiiiiiight though)

DIRECTIONS TO LOOK:
-VT Bass (I'm not joking, they do kinda sound like SVTs, and if yr looking for a big tube sound, well, SVT)
-Correct Sound Model T preamp - TOOBZ + EQ
-Meatsmoke is always a valid option

Just, try out a big power amp first. Get wunna dem Crowns or Peaveys from the 80's. Don't turn it up too far, but knowing you have headroom is an important thing. The power amp really has more to do with your overall sound than you think, because that's what's driving the speakers, and how a speaker is being driven/powered can influence the whole sound a TON.

I went from a Rusty Box to a Meatsmoke as well. I guess the difference for me is that I wasn't aiming to replicate a tube amp. Or buy a pedal that is a "tube amp in a box". That stuff is kind of best for Talkbassers who talk about getting heavy in their Sunday morning bands I call it the Tech21 VT club...

The Meatsmoke for me is a tone fattener. It adds 70% of the 3D sound of a tube amp and also provides a brilliant overdriven boost section. I've also recorded direct with it and it sounds magic. It's hugely useful. The fender tone stack works fine for me but I've always been a guy who looked at those EQ slider sections and then searched for a bypass button or set them all in the middle. Additionally, the Meatsmoke does great things with other pedals. Dirt and delay and vibe all sound huge through it. It takes ordinary shitty solid state amps and elevates the tonal quality a bunch. It makes amps sound bigger and deeper. That's why I love it. It's also not a bullshit digital emulator. It's authentic and organic sounding.

I dug the rusty box but it was a flavour for me, not a preamp. It's pretty specific and solid state sounding but a cool pedal. I also used an EBS Valvedrive for a long time. It's a brilliant drive pedal to use on solid state amps. Again, it's a fat and full sounding drive - not a tube amp. Tube pedals have a flavour. I like them for it but then again I didn't use SVT emulation as my benchmark. I just picked what worked in my band.

I wouldn't use an SVT as my benchmark either…I dig Orange Amps a lot more.

Deltaphoenix wrote:I wouldn't use an SVT as my benchmark either…I dig Orange Amps a lot more.

Fair call and I have similar taste. I used an Orange Terror for a while and really loved it. Could never get my hands on a decent priced AD200 locally but I imagine they would be great.

I completely agree with you when you say that tube pedal hype is kind of bullshit. I guess my point is that many of them are described as "raging SVT" or something similar. It was that bullshit that I was calling out specifically.

I don't really know which amp sounds like what, apart from bands I've seen live. And most of the time, the room is so small that it doesn't really sound like much anyways.

The point is, I don't have a certain amp I'm trying to emulate or acquire. I just know what sort of sound I want.

I messed with the Rusty Box and my Mini again today and got some better tones out of them. I just turned the RB to low gain mode and boosted the low and mids and cut some extra treble for a rounder, punchy clean tone, and then used the EQ on the Mini to give it some attack back with OD on. It sounds pretty good, but I'll have to see in a band setting to know for sure.

I feel like I can do better than "pretty good" but I'm also hesitant to mess with my sound too much. Ugh.

guess who just got a rusty box at a great price
i figure if its not my thing, i can always sell it, and get pretty much what i paid for it back

I think a big part of my problem is that it's not the best at low volumes, but when its cranked, it destroys. I just don't get many chances to crank it.

BTW, if I have 2 volume controls, one on the RB and one on my amp head, should I keep them about the same? Or should I crank the Rusty Box and then use the amp volume to control it?

neonblack wrote:I think a big part of my problem is that it's not the best at low volumes, but when its cranked, it destroys. I just don't get many chances to crank it.

Most every option mentioned in this thread will sound far better at high volume than low volume. That's just how these things work, even more so if you decide on a tube amp. Never gonna sound it's best reigned in.