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Hmm, post master volume mod, that doesn't sound like it'll make the amp sound more responsive, those kind of mods tend to muddy up an amp sometimes which in my experience is especially noticeable when you use fuzz / distortion boxes.
Also, the Orange cab you're using is a new cab, right?
Those are also notorious for having a sound that does not get through, almost as if there's a blanket over the amp, again especially when you use fuzz / distortion boxes.
Celestion 100's have quite a bit of lows and highs but not too much mids I believe, I could be wrong there though.
First thing I think you should do is run the master mod thing full open (I'm guessing it's out of the circuit then), see if you get a better sound when doing so and secondly run the amp through a different box, anything really but preferably a really good one like Bogner or something to really determine whether it's really the amp that's faulty.

Tristan wrote:Hmm, post master volume mod, that doesn't sound like it'll make the amp sound more responsive, those kind of mods tend to muddy up an amp sometimes which in my experience is especially noticeable when you use fuzz / distortion boxes.
Also, the Orange cab you're using is a new cab, right?
Those are also notorious for having a sound that does not get through, almost as if there's a blanket over the amp, again especially when you use fuzz / distortion boxes.
Celestion 100's have quite a bit of lows and highs but not too much mids I believe, I could be wrong there though.
First thing I think you should do is run the master mod thing full open (I'm guessing it's out of the circuit then), see if you get a better sound when doing so and secondly run the amp through a different box, anything really but preferably a really good one like Bogner or something to really determine whether it's really the amp that's faulty.

Both cabs are black tolex. The G12100 is brand new. The other one I wanna say is an 06'. Not positive on that one though. I bought it used like 3-4 yrs ago. The 100's are more low/high, as with the man o wars. The PMV mod is placed between the phase inverter and power tubes. I'm taking it up Friday to have Chris (tech) go over it. We'll sit there and hammer it out. I'll likely be running it through one of his Mesa v30 cabs. Not sure what else he might have available. I'll bring the fuzz boxes along to test out. I'm sure we'll open the throttle on her, along doing all the other normal spec test. I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and input. I think I'm calmed down now. Lol

On another note, I've gone chasing this sound I got one day when I plugged in a friends' LP standard and ran the OR into a Marshall 1960B cab loaded with 75's. It was scary how remarkably awesome the tone and response was. I play an SG with hot pups and a completely difference pair of cabs. Perhaps I need to quit experimenting with all these speakers, cabs and what not. Sell or trade for an LP and Marshall stack but keep the OR. What a novel idea!!! Lol

Or change the pickups on the SG (or roll back the nobs a bit) before doing something so drastic as selling the SG and buying a Lester.

Throw the OR off of a cliff

*stands at the bottom of the nearest cliff with a burlap sack*

Jeff-7 wrote:Or change the pickups on the SG (or roll back the nobs a bit) before doing something so drastic as selling the SG and buying a Lester.

Yea, There's more than enough gain on tap. Gotta roll back on these ones. I'm kinda feeling a little bi-polar on this subject lol. I don't have near the amount of ups and downs with the peavey valve king. Which as been an extremely reliable "go to" amp. Thankfully. Actually! I've had 0 problems in the 4 years I've oned it.

Those are all new Orange cabs, the old ones are from the 70's, in my opinion those new Orange cabs sound quite boxy and lots of sound seems to stay in the cab.
I'm curious what you'll think of the Mesa, that's a pretty modern and stiff sounding cab and it doesn't have that many mids either but I think it'll have a more projective sound nevertheless.

SG's can be quite difficult, other pots can also help (preferably have them measured for the right 500K ohmage before you put them in) but if the sound acoustically is already quite dull and dry then you should probably change your setup and maybe your bridge too, first try setting up the tailpiece a bit higher and see if that gives you more clarity.
Oh yeah, and you could try Dunlop Ultrex picks, those have a bit clearer sound and attack than the jank most people are using.
Just some thoughts.
Good luck on friday!

pelliott wrote:Throw the OR off of a cliff

*stands at the bottom of the nearest cliff with a burlap sack*

Lol maybe then it might start acting right.

not when i'm playing it

Tristan wrote:Those are all new Orange cabs, the old ones are from the 70's, in my opinion those new Orange cabs sound quite boxy and lots of sound seems to stay in the cab.
I'm curious what you'll think of the Mesa, that's a pretty modern and stiff sounding cab and it doesn't have that many mids either but I think it'll have a more projective sound nevertheless

SG's can be quite difficult, other pots can also help (preferably have them measured for the right 500K ohmage before you put them in) but if the sound acoustically is already quite dull and dry then you should probably change your setup and maybe your bridge too, first try setting up the tailpiece a bit higher and see if that gives you more clarity.
Oh yeah, and you could try Dunlop Ultrex picks, those have a bit clearer sound and attack than the jank most people are using.
Just some thoughts.
Good luck on friday!

Yea these cabs do have a tight boxy-ness to them. Which gives off a natural bassiness almost. Probably suited for a more modern voiced amp I assume. I thought that since I detune so low I'd be better off equipped with speakers and pups that can articulate the low frequencies well, and let the amp and guitar deal out the mids. Seemed like nice idea at first. But I like that idea about the bridge setup and pick selection. It's funny how much guitar picks can change the articulation of a guitar being strummed. With a heavy pick and hot pups uou really have to pick the guitar soft. I've resently started trying out different types and I like what I'm noticing with all that. I've also considered leaving the aftermsth pup in the bridge and trying out something more clearer but maybe as sensitive like a Bartolini in the neck. Regardless, first things first. Narrow down whatever is going with the OR. Then put the other pieces together.

Definitely, I'd also first check what's going on with the amp and cab.

Took it today. Had a bad Pre Amp tube. We've concluded that the Silicone OxFuzz is not a good match for the amp. It appears that this newer type circuit just pushes the pre amp tubes too hard. Causing it to sound too harsh and fizzy. The amp works great aside from all that. I didn't bring in my cab, however, I did use an unlabeled mismatch cab. It sounded huge. So we came up with this idea. I like the the master volume overdrive, but, want clean tone as well. So we're adding a channel switch board. Completely reversible. While also turning the send and return into an actual FX loop. Other than that I'll be using a boost pedal primarily for added gain. Doesn't look like I'll have much use at this time for any fuzz pedals with this amp. At least not now. Maybe if I run one through the clean channel. We'll see though, I have the super collider coming in the mail soon. So hopefully that pedal will gel good. Next thing I'll be doing is taking my cab in, when I go pick up my amp next week. Can't wait!

Sounds like you might want something smoother for a pedal. If you gave the super collider incoming anyway, give it a shot but I would guess that it will not be such a great match.
Have you thought about a boost pedal that basically amplifies your guitar signal, in order to overdrive the amp, so that you will get the amp clipping? Maybe a super hard-on or if you want to get fancy a treble booster like a range master? Both are easy circuits to clone there are a lot of options, check out the shark tank section for ilf builders, maybe. If you want to find out if this is what you need, try riding the volume knob on your guitar. Heck, maybe that's all you need, not even one pedal.
Another idea i had, if the ox was too modern in its voicing maybe you should get something with a vintage voicing, like maybe something built by Ghost Effects or D*A*M. Can be pricey, but it might be just what you need.
Personally I'd hesitate to modify a great vintage amp, even if it's a reversible mod. For two channels I'd rather try finding a pedal I like or using the volume.

Ah, did not read that you plan to use a boost already.

You made some great suggestions on boost pedals though. I'm gonna see if I can mod the rat for now, if that don't work I'll definitely be checking out those developers.

I have been hesitant to do any mods at all on this amp for the first few years I've owned it. This amp wasn't even working at all when I got possession of it, so my thoughts at first were to keep it completely original. My thoughts have resently changed though. The tone and overall sound it puts out is exactly what I want and is pretty much better than anything I've ever played though. I'm comfortable enough now playing around with it, so long as I don't ruin it. I know I'm sorta pushing on this idea, but, I trust that it'll keep the amp true, predominately. I'm sure I'll reverse it all next year about this time, when I can afford to grab up something more modern made. Until then, I'll just make due.

I'll say this much, I've learned quite bit about how sensitive these vintage amps can be.

Holy Schnikes wrote:I'd have to be in love with every aspect of an amp to take it to a tech that frequently and sink that kinda ca$h into it. If you don't love it and it's problematic, I say let it go and get something different. Lots of great amps out there. Not many that will do a convincing OR120 tone but sounds like you use lots of pedals anyway...

I use about 9 pedals, but, it's becoming more and more apparent that fuzz or distortion pedals might not be my answer to clipping the amp a little harder. "That tone" is what I really like and even when i have pushed it successfully hard through fuzzes, etc...while maintaining most of that tone, it never stays consistent. Money wise, yea, it's been a bitch from the get go. I'm intent on making use of it though.