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Hell yea! Dino's the man! Please someone get him a two face fuzz!!!

OK, hopefully this changes the title.

No lo conosco a este guey, pero me cae bien. Tu dale a todo dar compa, como dicen por ahi, a entrarle a lo pantera

That would be super cool if you traced the others, just make sure to take really good pics of where all the wires go before you start prying. That saved my ass on the PLL trace I did, those wires just dropped off with the slightest touch.

KOamps wrote:That would be super cool if you traced the others, just make sure to take really good pics of where all the wires go before you start prying. That saved my ass on the PLL trace I did, those wires just dropped off with the slightest touch.

I hear ya bro! I do have loads of pics of the boards, pots, and wires from the PLL. It's the first thing I do. Besides, it's saved my ass a couple of times when I wasn't sure about something, but the pedal was already returned to the owner.

htsamurai wrote:No lo conosco a este guey, pero me cae bien. Tu dale a todo dar compa, como dicen por ahi, a entrarle a lo pantera

donde esta el bano?

Anybody have any luck finding anyone willing to help the cause?

digi2t wrote:Anybody have any luck finding anyone willing to help the cause?

Just PM'd you back.

Not taking sides, 5KVNQW0RK5, but that's all just speculation.

So did someone send one out?

Man I just don't get it. I'm sorry, and I usually don't speak up often. But it's a pedal that makes sounds, and either way you both would be doing the same thing- reverse engineering. Who cares who did it first if it's neither of your designs? We all can benefit from BOTH of your contributions to breaking down the PLL into things that we can understand instead of the original spaghetti and unicorn blood that it once was. Between BOTH of you, we were able to make more progress on this thing in months than that had happened in years prior. I just don't understand why the PLL, like the Klon has to have all this baggage and grunge attached to it when we are simply just all going for DEM LOCUST TOANZ and debunking mysticism and legendary status, all while saving a good $1700 in the process of constructing these. Skunk- your PPLones look amazing and it really makes me want to build one of my own. I just want you to know your hard work paid off for ALL of us.

insubordination wrote:

digi2t wrote:Anybody have any luck finding anyone willing to help the cause?

Just PM'd you back.

Thank you Sir!

5KVNQW0RK5 wrote:

goroth wrote:The difference though is that Dino makes the schems public knowledge, publishes rad vero layouts and helps dudes who are struggling with their builds - if anyone else has done that then fine, they've beaten him to the punch, but until then... go Dino go!
<insert witty Spanish here>

I really could care less in helping him in any way and heres why (in before tl;dr). Dino emailed me a month or so before he got his hands on the PLL he cloned asking if I had a schematic that i’d be willing to share for my clone of the PLL, the Blackbird (he wanted to build one for himself). The answer was no for the fact that I have no formal schematics drawn up...none. Just topology and wiring diagrams that are so convoluted that only I could really make sense of them (I traced it in 2010 and had absolutely no idea what i was doing). He then asked if he could purchase a Blackbird in a blank unremarkable enclosure which in that particular instance, I found kind of odd. Nobody wanted one without the pretty little black box and he was the first to make such a request. Before I could tell him that they weren’t for sale (yet), I crossreferenced his screen name and it turned out he was an active cloner on a couple DIY forums, in particular being responsible for the reverse engineering of a couple rare and coveted effects for the first time.
I didn’t even bother with a response at that point because the impression I was given from his approach was that he would buy a barebones blackbird from me only to pull it apart and trace it with no intention of giving due credit to the very pedal he traced nor the person responsible for building it. He could go ahead and say he got his tracing from an original Schumann PLL with nobody knowing the wiser as the blackbird was nothing more than a rebranded PLL, just built far better. Vero layouts would be put together, PCB’s would eventually be made only to be profited from by somebody I could give a fuck all about and so on. If that was to happen, there would be little that I could do except for huff and puff over the internet. I wasn’t going to put myself in that grey area, especially for somebody who came at me like some half-assed internet Clouseau with no inkling of being honest about their true intentions of what would really be done with the pedal down the line.
When he managed to get his hands on a Schumann PLL to take apart not long after, he was quick to spill all the information he could get out of it. When I made mention of the blackbirds existence again to him on an open forum (either here or at diysb) right after the circuit had gone public, he made some bold comment about (and i paraphrase) ‘the timing being far too conventient for mere coincidence’. He chose his words carefully but basically made the accusation that I had used his now public tracings and notes to build my then year and a half old Blackbird. This was horseshit. I had to go ahead and post gut shots of prototypes as I had been put on the defensive as well as proving that it actually functioned after he publicly doubted that too. A real grade-school shitheel, uneccessary callout from somebody who is surprisingly seen as some kind of pedal cloning robin hood around here.
I know better than to associate with people who operate in a two faced manner. If he had approached me on the right foot, I think it would’ve been neat to work together as he finds these pedals just as interesting as I do but now I have zero desire to help him. matar a todos los hippies.

So, to address these issues, once and for all, point by point;

I really could care less in helping him in any way and heres why (in before tl;dr).

Fine by me.

Dino emailed me a month or so before he got his hands on the PLL he cloned asking if I had a schematic that i’d be willing to share for my clone of the PLL, the Blackbird (he wanted to build one for himself).

True, on both counts. I`ll also reiterate, I have never built clones for others. Never have, never will. Everything I`ve ever built, has been for my own personal use.

The answer was no for the fact that I have no formal schematics drawn up...none. Just topology and wiring diagrams that are so convoluted that only I could really make sense of them (I traced it in 2010 and had absolutely no idea what i was doing).

That was not the response that I received at the time. I simply received a laconic response stating that no schematic existed. Period. Full stop. If you wish, I can repost our exchange regarding this point, just say the word.

He then asked if he could purchase a Blackbird in a blank unremarkable enclosure which in that particular instance, I found kind of odd. Nobody wanted one without the pretty little black box and he was the first to make such a request.

All the clones I build are in plain aluminium enclosures. I just like them that way. My apologies if that vexed you.

Before I could tell him that they weren’t for sale (yet), I crossreferenced his screen name and it turned out he was an active cloner on a couple DIY forums, in particular being responsible for the reverse engineering of a couple rare and coveted effects for the first time.

Still haven`t seen them for sale, and guilty as charged.

I didn’t even bother with a response at that point because the impression I was given from his approach was that he would buy a barebones blackbird from me only to pull it apart and trace it with no intention of giving due credit to the very pedal he traced nor the person responsible for building it.

Obviously, your research skills are sorely lacking. I have always gone above and beyond the call insofar as credit is concerned. Actually, a similar credit issue arose over at FSB, to which I was quick to address. As far as I know, my name and reputation remain in good standing (I hope), which I consider paramount insofar as the free sharing of information is concerned. Insofar as the PLL clone project was concerned, I believe that I made it as clear as possible as to who provided what, even going as far as to respect the privacy concerns of the owner of the PLL. To my knowledge, all parties involved in this project, or any other project that I`ve undertaken in the past, have received due credit. If anyone has any concerns regarding this statement, then I would implore them to contact me, and I will make proper reparations.

He could go ahead and say he got his tracing from an original Schumann PLL with nobody knowing the wiser as the blackbird was nothing more than a rebranded PLL, just built far better. Vero layouts would be put together, PCB’s would eventually be made only to be profited from by somebody I could give a fuck all about and so on.

That would be harikiri. Folks around these parts aren`t that dumb, and pretty well tight-knit. I would never had gotten this far, made the wonderful connections with some damn fine people, or learned as much as I have, doing what you state. In the end, if someone wishes to profit from venturing into this territory, then beware the fires of hell. For the record, apart from the vero layout I designed (freely available), PCB`s have been created, and sold, at cost. No profit whatsoever was made from such. May I also add that the first run of PCB`s had errors on them. While they were not completely unusable, we advised all buyers of the errors, and will be providing corrected board, at no cost, as soon as they are proofed. Personally, I`m not that comfortable around sharp swords, or large fires, hence I avoid them at all costs.

If that was to happen, there would be little that I could do except for huff and puff over the internet.

Well... you`ve got the huffing and puffing part down pretty good.

I wasn’t going to put myself in that grey area, especially for somebody who came at me like some half-assed internet Clouseau with no inkling of being honest about their true intentions of what would really be done with the pedal down the line.

So... you`re willing to profit on John Schumann`s work instead. Seems to me like you`re already in the «grey area». Interesting, considering that in your second sentence, you admit that the Blackbird is a clone of the PLL. Hmmm...

When he managed to get his hands on a Schumann PLL to take apart not long after, he was quick to spill all the information he could get out of it.

I make all information available as soon as possible. It`s what the people here want, and appreciate.

When I made mention of the blackbirds existence again to him on an open forum (either here or at diysb) right after the circuit had gone public, he made some bold comment about (and i paraphrase) ‘the timing being far too conventient for mere coincidence’.

Negative. I suggest you go back and do your homework. For clarification (again!), I stated that it seemed ironic that you suddenly reappeared now that the PLL was out of the bag. It seemed to me, and others, that you were simply trying to drum up interest in the Blackbird, now that your vagueness, and unwillingness to provide any details as to the possible production or sale of said product, had been trumped.

He chose his words carefully but basically made the accusation that I had used his now public tracings and notes to build my then year and a half old Blackbird.

So now I own a time machine as well. Or do you own the time machine. I`m not sure anymore. In any case, I always choose my words carefully, hence avoiding any such inference.

This was horseshit. I had to go ahead and post gut shots of prototypes as I had been put on the defensive as well as proving that it actually functioned after he publicly doubted that too. A real grade-school shitheel, uneccessary callout from somebody who is surprisingly seen as some kind of pedal cloning robin hood around here.

Many thanks again for the video. I really enjoyed it. Robin Hood? Nobody has made that connection before, but considering that he too had a «Merry band of brothers», I`ll wear that cap... and the tights!

I know better than to associate with people who operate in a two faced manner. If he had approached me on the right foot, I think it would’ve been neat to work together as he finds these pedals just as interesting as I do but now I have zero desire to help him. matar a todos los hippies.

Again, fine by me, though I don`t quite know what «on the right foot» really means to you. If that`s begging, groveling, and prostrating myself for help, then you can drown alone in that pool.

As I mentioned before, please do your homework thoroughly before launching into these stream of consciousness tiraids of babble. It`s really unbecoming, and we have more important work to do here.

P.S. You wouldn`t happen to be Slade, would you?

Anyone send you one yet?