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Ben79 wrote:
Is it possible to reissue a prototype? If it was a prototype, it was never issued in the first place.

This.

Why call it a reissue if it really isn't?

Ben79 wrote:If it contains 4 470k resistors like Dr. Satan said, then it's gotta be a Fuzzrite.....hasn't it?

Is it possible to reissue a prototype? If it was a prototype, it was never issued in the first place.

Chankgeez wrote:

Ben79 wrote:
Is it possible to reissue a prototype? If it was a prototype, it was never issued in the first place.

This.

Why call it a reissue if it really isn't?

I don't know about part values, sorry.

Since when did an official re-issue have to be absolutely 100% exactly identical to the original? (Well, unless it claims to be, of course.) For example, is the Fender Blender re-issue the same as the vintage original (actually the 4-knob version)? No, it isn't. And how about the internal specs of the Vox reissue V847 wah wah - they aren't the same as the vintage original. And then, what about features like True Bypass and 9v adaptor jacks?

Even when it comes to hand-made so-called ''clones'' of vintage pedals, are they, semantically, always clones? That is to say, 100% exactly the same. Isn't that what the word ''clone'' means? I mean, aren't the circuits and/or parts values commonly tinkered with to make to improve them sonically and address any shortcomings of the vintage original? But they're still referred to as clones. Does it matter? Sometimes; sometimes not. It depends - on what one wants and expects. I'd suggest that for most players, they'd prefer a 'clone' with improved, tweaked insides.

Does the official re-issue referred to claim to be an exact clone or even just a clone of the circuit and circuit parts values of the original version? No, it doesn't. It's a variation on the original circuit, for better sonic performance. Does it still sound like the original? Sound is a subjective thing, but so I believe. Was the original point-to-point handwired? No, but the re-issue is. Is it an official re-issue? Yes, undisputeably. It is the only official re-issue, authorised and licensed by WEM (who, btw, are still a going concern). QED.

Yeah ok, it's a reissue in as much as the original company has released a fuzz pedal under the same name. So to the general fuzz buying masses, it's a WEM Pep Box, but to the guys here, who build fuzzes and who are interested in recreating lost sounds, I think the proof lies in the circuit and the components, which is yet to emerge. Plus it sounds totally different to Ian's.

Ben79 wrote:Yeah ok, it's a reissue in as much as the original company has released a fuzz pedal under the same name. So to the general fuzz buying masses, it's a WEM Pep Box, but to the guys here, who build fuzzes and who are interested in recreating lost sounds, I think the proof lies in the circuit and the components, which is yet to emerge. Plus it sounds totally different to Ian's.

Below is a photo of the guts.

Can you advise where you've listened to it? There are two versions. Thanks.

According to an advert for the original (wedge-shaped) WEM Pep Rush, The Animals used it. (Their guitarist was Hilton Valentine.) I think it may very well be featured on their early 1966 'Don't Bring me Down' single:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHrtwENUEK0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXsbvYxnwpA

p.s. - No maybe about it. Confirmed by the man himself in an unterview. source: http://www.mambosons.com/HiltonValentine.htm

That's a silicon fuzzrite with polarity protection and power filtering. I built one on tag the other day.

Ben79 wrote:That's a silicon fuzzrite with polarity protection and power filtering. I built one on tag the other day.

Fuck, good eye! Same damn layout.

Looks like there is a collector>base filter cap added to Q1 in the build, however.

Looks like there is a collector>base filter cap added to Q1 in the build, however.

In that case it's a WEM Rush Pep Box!

I think the possibility of the Fuzzrite having been based on the Pep Box needs to be explored.

Production of fuzz effecst took off in 1965 and 1966. It is well known that different makes' fuzz boxes borrowed heavily from near contemporary designs. For example, the Maestro Fuzztone was seminal in some designs. Another example, the similarity between the Fuzz Face, the mk1.5 ToneBender and the Vox Distortion Booster - we don't properly understand what the design lineage was there.

Is it not very possible that the American-made Mosrite Fuzzrite was based on the WEM Pep Box?

I gather the Fuzzrite was released in 1966. The WEM Pep Box, however, was launched 1965 - there is documentary proof. It was at a trade fair in summer 1965. The Pep Box was used (played into an Vox AC30) for the recording of an Animals' single ('Don't bring me down'), released May 1966. A Pep Box is being used by John Lennon in April 1966. So the Pep Box seems likley to predate the Fuzzrite.

Is it also not interesting that both the Fuzzrite and the Pep Box used germanium transistors initially but only for a very short runs, and then silicon circuits were then adopted by both instead? Two silicon fuzzes both in 1966, predating the use of silicon transistors in any other fuzz pedal, I believe, by 2-3 years? All coincidences?

Do we actually have either photo or a schematic diagram of the silicon version of the ORIGINAL (wedge-shaped) Pep Box? These certainly exist for the mark TWO (slab) version of the Pep Box, but there is no reason to believe the circuits remained the same? Did the circuits of the silicon and germanium versions of the original version of the Pep Box differ to one another?

Also, listen to The Animals' song 'Don't bring me down'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0KrLaaCkPQ
Does that sound akin to a Fuzzrite? Cos if it does, then that means a Fuzzrite actually sounds like an early Pep Box. They certainly both have that 60s garagey fuzz sound.

Interesting theory. I agree - it needs exploring. Could cast a big rock into the the pond of fuzz box history if it turns out to be true!

Please note that the gut shot I posted above the other day may not have been the correct image. Sorry about that! I shall post again as soon as I can to clarify things.

Ben79 wrote:Interesting theory. I agree - it needs exploring. Could cast a big rock into the the pond of fuzz box history if it turns out to be true!

It is an interesting theory. The problem being that a Fuzzrite and a Pep Fuzz don't really sound that much alike. Also, it looks like it was based on the wrong gut shot.
I've had two Pep Fuzz clones, one from Basic Audio and another from Ghost Effects (a kit that I built myself). They sound great - buzzy, gated 60s fuzz. But they don't really sound like a Fuzzrite. And they certainly don't have anything like the Fuzzrite's "blend" control.
One story I've read about the Fuzzrite is that it was based on the fuzz box Red Rhodes designed and built for the Ventures (heard most famously on "The 2000 Pound Bee"). Like most stories about old fuzz boxes, it's hard to know for sure. The point being that a lot of old circuits might be similar simply because there are only so many ways to skin a cat (or create a square sound wave).

^
Aren't those two clones you mention based on the mark 2 (slab) Pep Box, though? Isn't it more useful to establish what was in the original (wedge-shaped) version?

^ They are based on the slab version. But the point I was trying to make is that a lot of the folklore around old fuzz boxes can be hard to verify one way or another. I guess it's possible that the original wedge Pep Fuzz was copied in the Fuzzrite, but it's also possible that the reissue simply throws a Fuzzrite circuit in a wedge enclosure and calls it a Pep Fuzz.

That is indeed possible, and to me seems more likely but who knows? Given that Ro_S is involved in distributing this product, it's in his interest to float the idea but up to everyone else to decide how much plausibility it carries.

In my opinion, someone decided that there was money to be made in reissuing a stompbox that can be photographically and aurally associated with some big 60s names. And along the line it was decided that to inject some boutique mojo it would be built on tag board. And for some reason, yet to emerge, it was decided that a classic 60s garage fuzztone circuit (the Fuzzrite) would be put in there - using the layout that's available online - who's gonna notice? People noticed and now smoke is being blown into the argument like it's a 1980s made for TV courtroom drama. That's what it smells of to me anyway...