the inflation and the bandwagon of all things Psychedelic

[dubkitty]

not to be overly argumentative, because i think you have something of a point, but saying that all music has some effect on the nervous system is like saying that drugs of abuse affect consciousness, or that all food is nutritious. an old avant-gardeist friend of mine, who went on to the kind of rarefied fame that finds you in the review pages of the WIRE every month, used to say that music is sound with intent. i believe that what makes "psychedelic music" is intent. simply put, is your main intent to alter people's consciousness? not to make pretty songs, sell records, get laid, or buy your Mom a house in Bellevue, but to make sounds that get people out there? wherever "there" is?

[cheesecats]

not to be overly argumentative, because i think you have something of a point, but saying that all music has some effect on the nervous system is like saying that drugs of abuse affect consciousness, or that all food is nutritious. an old avant-gardeist friend of mine, who went on to the kind of rarefied fame that finds you in the review pages of the WIRE every month, used to say that music is sound with intent. i believe that what makes "psychedelic music" is intent. simply put, is your main intent to alter people's consciousness? not to make pretty songs, sell records, get laid, or buy your Mom a house in Bellevue, but to make sounds that get people out there? wherever "there" is?

not at all--i understand your point. i suppose intent isn't as important to me as is effect. and labels are limiting. if psychedelic music is defined as that which is mind expanding, i would include most of the groups you mention as well as 12th century notre dame school polyphony, gamelan, qawwali, carnatic classical, tuvan throat singing, bulgarian choral, ligeti, sun ra, hendrix, carl craig, and so on. it's not all about dripping reverb, reverse delay, and psychotropic drug references. but i do like the sound of many of the recent "psychedelic" bands, regardless of their intent.

[retinal orbita]

I agree 100% with the OP.

Most of the new-psych just winds up being pop songs with a fuzz pedal (Black Angels, Entrance Band, etc) - whereas I don't think you need to be connected to a "higher spiritual plane" to be considered psychedelic there has to be something other than 4/4 pop songs, a delay and a big muff to meet the seemingly ambiguous criteria of "psychedelic" music. It's not about drugs, or hare krishna, or anything concrete really. It's sort of like how modern shoegaze, post rock and modern psych are seemingly interchangeable now in terms of genre classification of sound.....

People I'd consider to meet these vague constructs: Alice Coltrane, Ravi Shankar, Failing Lights, Washing Machine-era Sonic Youth, Flower Travellin' Band, Silvester Anfang II, Sun Dial, Cluster, Eternal Tapestry, Ash Ra Tempel/Manuel Gottsching, Idris Ackamoor & The Pyramids, Sun Ra, AMON DUUL II, Don Cherry/CODONA, Barn Owl, Stars Of The Lid.... how many of these would meet the parameters of "psych" in the 13th Floor Elevators sense? Probably only a handful.... but that's where my definition goes rather than the bands on the Nuggets comps.

[Ghost Hip]

I've always tried to stay away from the term psychedelic with my music. I think dubkitty's friend's point on sound with intent to alter the consciousness of the listener is a good definition. Although the sounds that come out of my amp or my entire band may alter consciousness, it isn't necessarily our direct intent. In fact, I'd say the opposite is our intent.

However, by that definition, cannot the listener make any music psychedelic if they let it alter their mind and consciousness? Just a thought.

anywho, I feel people get inspired by the psychedelic bands of yesteryear and therefore believe that since their music is inspired by psychedelic music, that their music can be classified as so... even though they're playing fuzzy barre chords to 4/4 time drums and singing about banging.

[snipelfritz]

Most of the new-psych just winds up being pop songs with a fuzz pedal

Isn't this what much of original psychedelic music was? It was just new and exciting at the time. You can easily question the "genuine" nature of Cream just as much as Beach House. The whole "spiritual" aspect seems incredibly superfluous and superficial to me.

And once again, are Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, and Metalica more "metal" than Napalm Death, Kyuss, or Between the Buried and Me?

[dubkitty]

well, that's why i deliberately avoided "spiritual" ideas and discussion of lyrical themes at all and focused instead on sonics and intent. we could go rolling merrily down a cul-de-sac for hours talking about George Harrison and the Maharishi, Pete Townshend and Meher Baba, John McLaughlin's relationship with Sri Chinmoy and Carlos Santana, Chick Corea's Scientology, etc. and the ways these philosophies affected the artists' work, or about Daevid Allen and Gilli Smyth's magickal interests and the bizarre cults ancillary to the Grateful Dead, but that's far afield of the point.

the question "isn't this what much of original psychedelic music was?" takes us back to the beginning, and the question "what does the term 'psychedelic music' mean?" to me, Cream were NOT psychedelic; they were a blues/pop band who only went to the long-form jamming after they started touring and the audience at Winterland in 1967 demanded it (you can look it up) and never intended to be anything other than Clapton's mainstream pop move. and you can tell if you listen to them on acid...when you're tripping, Cream are BORING.

and yes, Sabbath are more metal than anyone. any foo' know that.

[retinal orbita]

I can say with total certainty that Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden are more metal than Between The Buried And Me, just based on the name...

[retinal orbita]

This is like trying to define what punk is. Are Black Flag punk? Of course they are. Is Green Day punk? To some, yes to others no.

Reading the wiki for "psychedelic music" (not rock) I don't even know if what I think is psychedelic music is correct....

Psychedelic music (sometimes psychedelia[1]) covers a range of popular music styles and genres, which are inspired by or influenced by psychedelic culture and which attempt to replicate and enhance the mind-altering experiences of psychedelic drugs.

[Ghost Hip]

Cream are BORING.

They're boring sober too. I listened to cream for a few months when I was younger and getting into guitar/music etc.... found more music and haven't listened to them since. Sadly that influenced my first pedal purchase... the crossroads pedal by digitech... it was a dark and sad time then.

[dubkitty]

not at all--i understand your point. i suppose intent isn't as important to me as is effect. and labels are limiting. if psychedelic music is defined as that which is mind expanding, i would include most of the groups you mention as well as 12th century notre dame school polyphony, gamelan, qawwali, carnatic classical, tuvan throat singing, bulgarian choral, ligeti, sun ra, hendrix, carl craig, and so on. it's not all about dripping reverb, reverse delay, and psychotropic drug references. but i do like the sound of many of the recent "psychedelic" bands, regardless of their intent.

sure, in the broader sense, i agree. as i implied in my reply to Snipelfritz, i don't think of Cream as "psychedelic" in part because they don't affect me that way despite their use of some stylistic traits of the genre, while i hope no one would argue the point that Hendrix was psychedelic as fuck. Ra and Jimi, as well as Ornette Coleman, are particularly prominent examples of artists who spoke at great length about using music as a tool for human change and evolution who i really ought to have remembered, but i was working from whose interview quotes i could remember at 2AM. i was trying to address the question of "what is psychedelic music" in a rock context as a way of answering Bassus' original question of whether modern "psychedelic rock" is really what it says on the label, and if the term needs to be redefined. i used to do library cataloging, so i can disappear up my own ass doing taxonomy, but i should have made "ROCK" more explicit...i was writing to the assignment

[retinal orbita]

I do like Cream a lot... my wife fucking hates them, and thinks they're bland as hell. But I like them less for Clapton and more for Baker and Bruce, who were phenomenal musicians. you ever hear that record Baker did with Fela Kuti? Man, that fucking RULES. Live Cream I & II are exceptional, better than any of their studio albums. Fresh Cream is a great slab of bluesy rock, but every album has something of value. More than a couple clunkers on each LP though.

I think though, for everyone weighing in with a "boring comment", that can be summed up by their BBC Pre-jam sessions. Talk about bland man.

[D.o.S.]

Cream is rad as fuck. Y'all are haters.

Anyway, new "psychedelic" music bums me out for the most part. Definitely getting a lot of work as a new buzzword, though.

[Ghost Hip]

I do like Cream a lot... my wife fucking hates them, and thinks they're bland as hell. But I like them less for Clapton and more for Baker and Bruce, who were phenomenal musicians. you ever hear that record Baker did with Fela Kuti? Man, that fucking RULES. Live Cream I & II are exceptional, better than any of their studio albums. Fresh Cream is a great slab of bluesy rock, but every album has something of value. More than a couple clunkers on each LP though.

I think though, for everyone weighing in with a "boring comment", that can be summed up by their BBC Pre-jam sessions. Talk about bland man.

I didn't mean to insult anyone who listens to them, they are just not my thing anymore. I spoke a bit harshly, but then again I play Cream riffs during practice to make my band mates laugh.

[Chankgeez]

... Mould's Sugar show i saw on their first tour was the loudest thing i'd seen ...

HA ha. I was just thinking recently about how loud that band was.

[dubkitty]

that was the first rock gig i ever attended where they handed out earplugs at the door.