ilovefuzz.com

I feel like I'd have some fun with the technology in those robot guitars but not in the way they intended, however, my wallet doesn't even like the way it sounds.

Dear Gibson,

Stop sucking

Signed: Everyone

Gibson's horrible business model and jackass of a president aside, this law really fucks over everyone...and it's not even a US law.

Hate Gibson or not, this thing could screw with everyone.
This gives the government the right to confiscate the gear of any touring musician and possibly even prosecute them (they can't possibly know at a glance where your guitar was finished, so they'll just confiscate all your stuff just to be safe)

Keep in mind Gibson violated no US laws, and the only Indian law they violated was that the wood was NOT finished by Indian workers, but rather Gibson USA workers.
India doesn't even give a crap, someone is just holding a grudge (probably for the firebird X).

yeah, i dunno.

it seems like a jay-walking kind of law where no one gets prosecuted except the folks the cops dont like.

Gunner Recall wrote:Keep in mind Gibson violated no US laws, and the only Indian law they violated was that the wood was NOT finished by Indian workers, but rather Gibson USA workers.
India doesn't even give a crap, someone is just holding a grudge (probably for the firebird X).

They (allegedly) violated the Lacey Act, expanded in 2008, which is definitely a US law. The idea is that it is a farm subsidy issue to make US farms more competitive with imports. It appears to be a letter of the law over the spirit kind of thing. Gibson has been rated one of the worst places to work in the US, but I guess it beats working in one of those Cort shops. I'm interested to see what comes of this.

Anyway, the petition is a total waste of time.

devnulljp wrote:Dear Gibson,

Stop sucking

Signed: Everyone

why isn't this petition kicking around here?

counterdestroy wrote:

devnulljp wrote:Dear Gibson,

Stop sucking

Signed: Everyone

why isn't this petition kicking around here?

I´ll join that petition....
where is the dotted line?

Radical AC wrote:

Gunner Recall wrote:Keep in mind Gibson violated no US laws, and the only Indian law they violated was that the wood was NOT finished by Indian workers, but rather Gibson USA workers.
India doesn't even give a crap, someone is just holding a grudge (probably for the firebird X).

They (allegedly) violated the Lacey Act, expanded in 2008, which is definitely a US law. The idea is that it is a farm subsidy issue to make US farms more competitive with imports. It appears to be a letter of the law over the spirit kind of thing. Gibson has been rated one of the worst places to work in the US, but I guess it beats working in one of those Cort shops. I'm interested to see what comes of this.

Anyway, the petition is a total waste of time.

The Justice Department is investigating whether Gibson violated a new provision of the Lacey Act that prohibits the importation of articles that contain wood or wood products that were sourced from illegally harvested trees. This law also applies to such products as amplifiers (wood cabinets) and instrument cases. One criterion for "illegal" is if a foreign law is broken. In the case of the ebony fingerboard blanks, the U.S. government contends that Indian law requires the fingerboards be finished in India. Gibson is challenging that interpretation. The Lacey Act has nothing to do with farm subsidies--it's driven by environmental concerns. The Lacey Act also applies to turtles that are killed in shrimp nets, among other things, which has a big negative impact on the U.S. shrimp fishing industry. The relevant Lacey Act provisions only apply to commercial imports, not to instruments taken across borders for personal use, such as by touring musicians. The concern there is the CITES, which pertains to specific endangered species, such as Brazilian rosewood. A certificate must accompany the instrument if it is reentered after being taken outside U.S. customs territory if it contains wood on the CITES list.

One result of the Lacey Act and the CITES has been the necessity to document the value chain to ensure traceability. Companies are now much more careful and diligent in sourcing wood. I visited PRS a year ago to discuss the requirements and tour their operation, and they are extremely vigilant. Their wood buyer personally takes many overseas trips to develop and maintain relationships and intelligence to ensure their foreign-sourced wood is legal. I'm certain other companies are doing this as well or will improve their systems. Compliance is very expensive, and we will all be paying for it.

This is the second seizure of ebony wood from Gibson--the first was in 2009. Gibson is much more exposed than Fender because it uses a higher proportion of imported wood species, mainly mahogany, rosewood, and ebony. Mahogany is also susceptible to the Act, which puts Gibson at even higher risk. In contrast, Fender uses mostly alder, ash, and maple, none of which are at high risk of illegal logging since they are mainly sourced in North America. But Fender could have to stop offering a rosewood fingerboard option and drop some of it's mahogany body line, to the chagrin of jag, jazz, and sonic lovers. So while it may seem cool to bash Gibson because of product lines and customer demographics, the company is facing a very serious threat that could reverberate through and drastically change the industry and affect the products we are offered in the future. Oh, and Gibson has yet to be charged with anything, even though the seized wood from two years ago is still in custody.

^
Sounds like Gibson should have been more careful in sourcing their wood.

MiddleEarthCrisis wrote:^
Sounds like Gibson should have been more careful in sourcing their wood.

As I said in the other thread, wood shipping companies have been created to import wood for them. When you are a company that builds things out of wood you always have someone to check all your wood shipments so you know what is what and if what you just got is suppose to be what you got, and if it isn't a red flag will be raised, and if it wasn't someone is in a LOT of trouble... of Gibson didn't care..

I dunno. American Gibsons are cheaper than American Fenders. Seems a little upside down to me especially since Fenders have traditionally been cheaper to manufacture.

I really, really want a 335.

If Gibson would stop pumping money into Robot guitars, stop making huge losses, and go back to ensuring their new models sounded good, and make the prices a little more agreeable, they would be a great company, make a lot more money and have folks like me signing petitions for them whenever something like this happened.

I really don't care.

Caesar wrote:I dunno. American Gibsons are cheaper than American Fenders. Seems a little upside down to me especially since Fenders have traditionally been cheaper to manufacture.

wait, what?

A Gibson SG sells for 1200

MIA Tele/Strat sells for 1000

Unless I really really suck at math, I think Fenders are cheaper