The Ugly Truth behind Cort/Cor-tek Guitars

[ohsojayadeva]

...most of the complaints that the video mentions seem sort of insignificant to be honest..

Perhaps you missed the parts of the video where they talked about having to work extensive hours with no overtime compensation, or where the workers were not provided with sufficient equipment to maintain a decent health standard.

I think it's really easy for us to say "why don't they just quit their jobs" or "they should just get new jobs, then," but that's exceptionally short-sighted in my opinion. We need to look at this scenario and accept that people all over the world just don't have it as easy as we do, and at this point, even we don't have it that great.

[rfurtkamp]

Perhaps you missed the parts of the video where they talked about having to work extensive hours with no overtime compensation, or where the workers were not provided with sufficient equipment to maintain a decent health standard.

Part 1 is salary/piecework standard for most of the world if you haven't met quota. If they or their union agreed to it, zero issue.

Part 2 is 'employer provides some safety equipment' - if they want more than that, they can purchase it.

Again, I don't expect Western standards for non-Western countries. They have rule of law and the ability to negotiate their working conditions.

I think it's really easy for us to say "why don't they just quit their jobs" or "they should just get new jobs, then," but that's exceptionally short-sighted in my opinion.

It's exceptionally short-sighted to deny workers their livelihood based on boycotts of products using ethical standards that may not apply in the slightest to their culture as well.

I'm just not moved by this, sorry. There's no eight year olds losing limbs or forcible at gunpoint slavery going on.

[ohsojayadeva]

Part 1 is salary/piecework standard for most of the world if you haven't met quota. If they or their union agreed to it, zero issue.

Now I'm really wondering if you watched the whole video. There was definitely talk about the union attempting to make concessions and to come to an agreement, which Cort accepted, and then moved back on pretty much right away.

Part 2 is 'employer provides some safety equipment' - if they want more than that, they can purchase it.

Seriously? We're dealing with a large mass of underpaid workers in unhealthy conditions that are essentially being trampled on or, at best, ignored by their managers, and your answer is that they should be the ones purchasing their own safety gear? And what if they can't afford it? Is that just "too bad," or "they should find a new job, then" again?

Again, I don't expect Western standards for non-Western countries. They have rule of law and the ability to negotiate their working conditions.

No, really, did you watch the video? The workers repeatedly discussed their efforts to negotiate.

I'm just not moved by this, sorry. There's no eight year olds losing limbs or forcible at gunpoint slavery going on.

Which actually doesn't have anything to do with the video. The plight of one group should not invalidate the plight of another.

[McSpunckle]

Because if there's one thing sweatshops love, it's collective bargaining.

[rfurtkamp]

Now I'm really wondering if you watched the whole video. There was definitely talk about the union attempting to make concessions and to come to an agreement, which Cort accepted, and then moved back on pretty much right away.

Yea, I watched the whole one-sided thing, including the largely irrelevant "I tried to kill myself to get people back to work" tearjerker at the end.

There's no exerpts from contracts, there's no context, there's no other side. It's a labor dispute, not a massive human rights issue. Contract disputes are a normal course of business.

Seriously? We're dealing with a large mass of underpaid workers

No context provided for their alleged underpayment. Is it below SK's minimum wage or prevailing rate of pay? Did the workers agree to it without coersion under real threat of force?

they should be the ones purchasing their own safety gear?

If the provided material is not sufficient, and they won't negotiate for better, yes.

in unhealthy conditions that are essentially being trampled on

No context for prevailing working conditions for SK in a factory environment, or the environment at large in a major urban area there. We're not dealing with Western standards in a Western culture.

Which actually doesn't have anything to do with the video. The plight of one group should not invalidate the plight of another.

This isn't a "plight" - this is a labor dispute in a country with free elections, rule of law, and freedom of choice.

[ohsojayadeva]

Your world sounds really nice. I wish the rest of us lived there.

[tashiattack]

There is far more to the story than this video, including more reasons as to why Cort is shitty. Often times though, these corporations escapee responsibilities because they hire third-party factory owners who do all the dirty work. So if a dispute arises, or its found that working conditions are horrific, its either rationalized because "at least they have a job" (aka: exploitation is okay) or "we didn't know and its not our responsibilities. Thats the factory owners job."

I don't expect each country to adhere to some sort of mythical perfect standard that we have devised here or in academia. "Horrific" standards vary substantially from one country to the next; I am not enough of a bastard imperialist pig to determine what standards a people are required to work under. Too much "white man's burden", 21rst century style for me, thanks.

They can quit their jobs, they can protest, they can make these videos, they have options and recourse to the law in South Korea. I'm sure it's not perfect (or necessarily even all accurate, given that you could put together the same sort of one-sided video with employee complaints anywhere in the world for that matter with enough effort and time), but the chance for freedom and self-determination is a double-edged sword that's worth it. I could just compare SK to North Korea and most of the complaints that the video mentions seem sort of insignificant to be honest.

If you want stuff crafted to 'living wage' standards etc. hire somebody to build one under your own direct observation to ensure no exploitation and pay the premium for it.

Truth is most people don't care that much, nor should they.

Listen, my intention was not to argue with you on my initial response. It was to generate a discussion.

We play a role in Cort's manufacturing, and we can't just claim theres no responsibility here. I said that it was mostly the corporations and the third-party factories that are responsible for this, not necessarily the consumers. However, our actions (purchasing power) reproduce these conditions. Claiming that I have no part in "white mans guilt" is not an excuse, or even a valid argument because whether you want to accept it or not, we benefit as a result of other peoples misery. I'm not white, but I am a settler here just like you. However, I don't feel guilty about this, its not my fault, but at the very least I consider it and have a conscious about it.

If you're claiming that being in solidarity with workers in SK is imperialist, then you are misinformed (I realize that comment was tongue-in-cheek). The workers there are asking for global support, there is nothing imperialist about supporting them.

I'm not going to convince you that this is constitutes as poor labour standards, but you proved my point. You rationalize your position as "insignificant" based on the same arguments made by corporate apologists; they could quit their jobs because they have a "free" choice (yes, because thats realistic in order to pay rent and food, or I can choose to starve...); it's a contract dispute (so lets say the protection of labour standards are not in the contract, does it still make it okay?); they should be thankful they have a job and stop complaining because others (i.e NK) have it worse (as though a "lesser" form of repression makes it okay) etc. It's the same arguments used to bust unions and scale back on labour rights worldwide.

Its not no one who cares, its mostly docile North American's who can't seem to comprehend or understand the human impact of the economy. Several movements in the global south would gladly disagree with you about not caring.

Ps: Hiring someone to build a better product, or having "fair traded" products in the market are not a solution to a wider systemic problem either.

[D.o.S.]

To be fair, I'd have a hard time caring about anyone else if I lived in Idaho.

[dubkitty]

that video is over two years old viz. the posting date (i thought i recognized it from the round of spiel it produced when it went around on other forums about a year ago). beyond the relevance of a local labor issue to me, a person who doesn't believe that the Worker is a class united everywhere by a common interest, is it even reflective of the current situation?

[ohsojayadeva]

According to the sources on the Wikipedia page, as of last year this situation was still unresolved.

[CBA]

To be fair, I'd have a hard time caring about anyone else if I lived in Idaho.

I don't mean to be a jerk, here, but you can always use my Default Answer Post to rfartcamp if you want (taken from an older thread):

Well, first of all... THIS THERE. And THEN you say that such and such... but you CLEARLY some of those. Last time anyone posted about it was like yeah, and then two posts later you're like BUT SO. And then you had to go and post it BECAUSE, which THAT and THESE! Also, in your second paragraph, the one where it was, you went on with it.

If you're going to post here on ILF, you have to say those. Your immediate attitude, as shown by your 3 posts that were like from it, were THAT and then you accused me of THIS and then ALSO SOME OF IT! I was simply doing what, but you didn't even come close to why, so yes.

C

[dubkitty]

the only source material linked about the Cort labor dispute from Wikipedia is a blog from the pro-Cort protest organization here in the US, which hasn't been updated since January. here's how Wiki describes the situation:

"Since 1997 controversy has surrounded Cort and Cor-Tek due to its alleged mistreatment of factory workers. Grievances include the closing of its Daejon factory with no advanced warning on April 9, 2007, mass redundancies of all staff from its Incheon plant on April 12, 2007, and the firing and mistreatment of union officials and members."

the biggest complaint isn't that the jobs were unsafe, underpaid, or the hours too long...it's that the jobs were taken away. it's like the old joke about the two Deadheads bitching about everything about the show and ending by saying "and it was too short, too!"

they closed the plant in 2007...it's 2011 now. they're not going to reopen the plant, any more than GM and Toyota are going to reopen the NUMMI plant here in the Bay Area. they can't sell what you make there for enough to make it worthwhile.

[ohsojayadeva]

My mistake. This wasn't actually linked via wiki, just referenced:

http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/ ... how-232325

[dubkitty]

i don't consider an interview with Tom Morello to be source material. that's advocacy, not information. but if you insist:

Morello and System Of A Down frontman Serg Tankian (both partners in the Axis Of Justice) are joining representatives of Korean guitar workers in a protest against Cort Guitars, whom they say fired all of its Korean workers and closed all of its Korean plants in 2007 to "avoid paying proper wages" and to "fix deplorable working conditions."

so let me see if i understand this correctly: the union wants Cort to reopen plants that were unecononomical to operate under what the union says were unsafe and unfair work conditions, and operate them under union-approved conditions which would make them even less economical to operate?

[ohsojayadeva]

To be clear, you asked for something that would show the video I posted was indicative of current events, so I posted a link that showed the protests were still outstanding. I'm sorry that it didn't cut the mustard for you, but it did do what you asked.


Further, the plants were not uneconomical to operate. In fact, Cort was posting profits in the billions for 10 years prior to the layoffs. If anything, the factories were moved to China and Indonesia because workers rights are that much less in those countries- and those folks are probably being subjected to the same shady practices as the workers in Korea. The entire thing was declared illegal by the highest courts in SK.

So, here's another link, again outlining how the situation was not resolved as of 2010:

http://www.yacomitservice.com/kiwa/eng/ ... body&no=48

The National Labor Relations Commission ruled that Cor-tek’s disciplinary dismissal of the union officers was illegal, and that the mass redundancy dismissal of all the Cort workers also did not fulfill legal prerequisites and found those dismissals unfair and illegal as well (Oct. 2007, Mar. 2008). The High Courts also found that both Cort and Cor-tek mass dismissals were illegal, finding that Cort’s claim of financial hardship false since the company had posted profits amounting to 78 billion for a decade straight until 2006, and since managerial and office staff salaries even increased after the mass firing (Aug. 2009, Nov. 2009). Cor-tek was also found to have violated the Equal Opportunity Act with its discriminatory treatment of its women workers (July 2008), while Cort’s dismissal of five workers who were industrial injury victims while on the job was ruled by the courts in favor of the workers as well (February 2008).

Later...

In LA and Anaheim as well, the Cort and Cor-tek workers along with their supporters from the culture and music fields will carry out a range of actions and concerts to publicize their plight and pressure Cort Guitars to give them their jobs back under humane working conditions.

The emphasis in the last quote is mine.