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dmcmahon wrote:Does slamming the input of the M9 with fuzz or a heavy boost cause any clipping or weirdness?

Not at all. And I torture it with the PO and QTron.

Seedy wrote:

dmcmahon wrote:Does slamming the input of the M9 with fuzz or a heavy boost cause any clipping or weirdness?

Not at all. And I torture it with the PO and QTron.

Thanks, that's just what I wanted to hear. Or maybe I didn't because I might have to buy one now.

I hate the M9. It's so uninspiring, and just annoying to use.













































but, I'll probably never sell mine, because of the looper and delays.

I've never tried one.
I think I should sit down with one soon and really see what they can do.

i agree with the general observations in favor of L6 gear. the modulation, delay, and reverb sims are worth the entire sum i spent on my PodXT and foot controller. what i truly appreciate is how simple the delays are to set compared to some rack delays...if you want a stereo delay with different intervals a la the Edge, you can just set the long repeat and the set the other to e.g. 66% instead of having to set both values in milliseconds. L6 sims aren't always great, but they're often better than you'd expect, and having dozens of them in one container is a huge palette to acquire in one action, and to have things you'd never otherwise have around to use...really, would you buy a Leslie simulator? that also does the Fender Vibratone?

as others said above, i've also found that the L6 sims have helped me to narrow down the kinds of stuff i like in terms of amps and effects to concentrate on in non-virtual reality. the thing is, you really have to tweak the L6 sims on the most granular level possible for best results...when editing the amplifier sims i found that moving the mic in/out of the simulated room by single notch adjustments changed the EQ of the amp sim in ways i couldn't with the tone knobs on the Pod.

for tube amps, if you can find a good silverface Fender you'll be good to go. here in the SF Bay Area silverface Twin Reverbs go for $800 nowadays, and it's not unusual to find silverface Princeton Reverbs for less than the MAP cost of a new PRRI. naturally, the size of amp you want is the most dear. you'll want to do some research, though; some of the circuits were changed in ways that screwed them up, so some silverfaces can be very iffy depending on date of manufacture.

i really don't like the modern Fender Hot Rod/Blues Deluxe amps; if i was looking for something in that vein i would look for a used Peavey Classic, which were quite underrated in the kinda-sorta-vintagey-if-you-squint-it-might-be-a-tweed-Bassman category. the new-ish Fender "reissue" blackface amps are quite good, but a bit pricey for PCB-based amps.

if you want to check out new amps that are affordable and a bit off the radar--and/or if you're like me and are burned out on the Fender amp sound--there are some nice, very useable options available. one is the Epiphone Blues Custom, which a friend of mine owns and loves. it has 30W/15W output switching, independent vs. interactive EQ modes, and comes with two 12" Eminence speakers. with 5881 power tubes, it leans more to the Fender side, but can do a lot of things. another is the Laney VC30-212, which is my amp. it's basically an AC30 power stage with a Marshall front end, and comes with Celestion speakers. as you might guess from its 12AX7/EL84 architecture, it likes to break up early and often. i don't mind.

if you're in a major metropolitan area, you could also try to find an old Ampeg. old Ampeg bass amps have now atomically decayed to 100% unobtanium, but Ampeg guitar amps such as the Reverbarocket are surprisingly cheap and sound like nothing else. get to know NOS tube suppliers, though.

and don't neglect the amount of mileage you can get from a small amplifier driving a multi-speaker cabinet. i spent years playing a Princeton Reverb through a 2x12 cabinet and was loud enough to get over a typical drummer just fine. of course, there wasn't a lot of clean headroom, but i'm not Chet Atkins, either. check out the demonstration video on YouTube where the guy's playing the Marshall Class5 through the 4x12 cabinet. it's not the number of watts, it's the amount of air that you displace with those watts. more speakers > more watts, all other things being equal.

^Listen to this man

Well 40 to 60 watt is already pretty loud.. Guitarists in bands I played in had 30 watt amps and they were loud enough for gigs on stages with like 800-1000 visitors..

When there is a decent F.O.H. of course

does the m9 work in an effects loop?
All I would want it for is the delays reverb and modulation and I want that all after my tubes

dubkitty wrote:i agree with the general observations in favor of L6 gear. the modulation, delay, and reverb sims are worth the entire sum i spent on my PodXT and foot controller. what i truly appreciate is how simple the delays are to set compared to some rack delays...if you want a stereo delay with different intervals a la the Edge, you can just set the long repeat and the set the other to e.g. 66% instead of having to set both values in milliseconds. L6 sims aren't always great, but they're often better than you'd expect, and having dozens of them in one container is a huge palette to acquire in one action, and to have things you'd never otherwise have around to use...really, would you buy a Leslie simulator? that also does the Fender Vibratone?

as others said above, i've also found that the L6 sims have helped me to narrow down the kinds of stuff i like in terms of amps and effects to concentrate on in non-virtual reality. the thing is, you really have to tweak the L6 sims on the most granular level possible for best results...when editing the amplifier sims i found that moving the mic in/out of the simulated room by single notch adjustments changed the EQ of the amp sim in ways i couldn't with the tone knobs on the Pod.

for tube amps, if you can find a good silverface Fender you'll be good to go. here in the SF Bay Area silverface Twin Reverbs go for $800 nowadays, and it's not unusual to find silverface Princeton Reverbs for less than the MAP cost of a new PRRI. naturally, the size of amp you want is the most dear. you'll want to do some research, though; some of the circuits were changed in ways that screwed them up, so some silverfaces can be very iffy depending on date of manufacture.

i really don't like the modern Fender Hot Rod/Blues Deluxe amps; if i was looking for something in that vein i would look for a used Peavey Classic, which were quite underrated in the kinda-sorta-vintagey-if-you-squint-it-might-be-a-tweed-Bassman category. the new-ish Fender "reissue" blackface amps are quite good, but a bit pricey for PCB-based amps.

if you want to check out new amps that are affordable and a bit off the radar--and/or if you're like me and are burned out on the Fender amp sound--there are some nice, very useable options available. one is the Epiphone Blues Custom, which a friend of mine owns and loves. it has 30W/15W output switching, independent vs. interactive EQ modes, and comes with two 12" Eminence speakers. with 5881 power tubes, it leans more to the Fender side, but can do a lot of things. another is the Laney VC30-212, which is my amp. it's basically an AC30 power stage with a Marshall front end, and comes with Celestion speakers. as you might guess from its 12AX7/EL84 architecture, it likes to break up early and often. i don't mind.

if you're in a major metropolitan area, you could also try to find an old Ampeg. old Ampeg bass amps have now atomically decayed to 100% unobtanium, but Ampeg guitar amps such as the Reverbarocket are surprisingly cheap and sound like nothing else. get to know NOS tube suppliers, though.

and don't neglect the amount of mileage you can get from a small amplifier driving a multi-speaker cabinet. i spent years playing a Princeton Reverb through a 2x12 cabinet and was loud enough to get over a typical drummer just fine. of course, there wasn't a lot of clean headroom, but i'm not Chet Atkins, either. check out the demonstration video on YouTube where the guy's playing the Marshall Class5 through the 4x12 cabinet. it's not the number of watts, it's the amount of air that you displace with those watts. more speakers > more watts, all other things being equal.

wow. thanks for all the information. but here's a few names from the local sam ash. they have your typical marshalls, fenders, etc. but they do have a few laneys, bogner alchemist series, and the ones that i have questions about- blackstar amplification and bugera. any experience with either of these?

Black Stars are awesome they're distortion channel is one fo teh better "Metal" sounds, teh clean channel is just a plain clean channel.
Bogner, of which I know the owner, are great amps very tweakable, teh Alchemists have reverb and delay in them and are footswitchable along with the channel select and boost, the clean channel is alright, teh distortion channel is pretty amazing, Bogners are basically hotrodded marshalls, so keep that mind
Bugera, pretty cool amps especially for the money, haven't played one, but I have seen a bunch of reviews and people seem to like them alot.

Out of those three I'd get a Black Star, the only thing is that I don't know if they are pedal friendly, which is where the thiry day return policy comes in handy/splurge and get all three!

The4455 wrote:Black Stars are awesome they're distortion channel is one fo teh better "Metal" sounds, teh clean channel is just a plain clean channel.
Bogner, of which I know the owner, are great amps very tweakable, teh Alchemists have reverb and delay in them and are footswitchable along with the channel select and boost, the clean channel is alright, teh distortion channel is pretty amazing, Bogners are basically hotrodded marshalls, so keep that mind
Bugera, pretty cool amps especially for the money, haven't played one, but I have seen a bunch of reviews and people seem to like them alot.

Out of those three I'd get a Black Star, the only thing is that I don't know if they are pedal friendly, which is where the thiry day return policy comes in handy/splurge and get all three!

I wouldn't recommend Blackstar to most people.
I got to recently try some of their amps (the HT series), are I think they are really generic sounding amps.
They lack a distinctive voice. They're just kind of boring IMO.
When I was playing around with ones, I got some cool sounds, but there was nothing super special about them.
They might be cool as a first "decent" amp, but I'd still stay clear of them personally.

Toonster wrote:Well 40 to 60 watt is already pretty loud.. Guitarists in bands I played in had 30 watt amps and they were loud enough for gigs on stages with like 800-1000 visitors..

When there is a decent F.O.H. of course

Yes, I agree with this. I think a lot of people end up getting more watts than they would actually use. Many people end up getting an amp that they are never able to dial in to that "sweet spot", because if they tried they would end up sharting their pants. There's really 2 mindsets when it comes to guitarists playing live these days. There's the "I want to melt your face off with my wall-o-Marshalls". Then there are the guys who are more interested in sound quality than sound quantity. These guys may have a fullstack on stage, but what you're actually hearing is the mic'ed up Blues Jr (for example) behind the amps. You look at a lot of big named guitarists and often you find they're only using an AC30 and/or a small Fender combo.

30 - 45 watts will be plenty for most venues. And it won't matter if you don't have a high wattage amp if you are playing a huge venue, because they're just going to mic you up. I was playing the Deville 4x10 with my last touring band. I found myself rarely turning up past noon, and we played loud too. Just more amp than I needed. Another thing to consider is that smaller amps are better for studio/recording situations... I really like 10" speakers for recording purposes. Much more focused sound.

modernage wrote:

Toonster wrote:Well 40 to 60 watt is already pretty loud.. Guitarists in bands I played in had 30 watt amps and they were loud enough for gigs on stages with like 800-1000 visitors..

When there is a decent F.O.H. of course

Yes, I agree with this. I think a lot of people end up getting more watts than they would actually use. Many people end up getting an amp that they are never able to dial in to that "sweet spot", because if they tried they would end up sharting their pants. There's really 2 mindsets when it comes to guitarists playing live these days. There's the "I want to melt your face off with my wall-o-Marshalls". Then there are the guys who are more interested in sound quality than sound quantity. These guys may have a fullstack on stage, but what you're actually hearing is the mic'ed up Blues Jr (for example) behind the amps. You look at a lot of big named guitarists and often you find they're only using an AC30 and/or a small Fender combo.

30 - 45 watts will be plenty for most venues. And it won't matter if you don't have a high wattage amp if you are playing a huge venue, because they're just going to mic you up. I was playing the Deville 4x10 with my last touring band. I found myself rarely turning up past noon, and we played loud too. Just more amp than I needed. Another thing to consider is that smaller amps are better for studio/recording situations... I really like 10" speakers for recording purposes. Much more focused sound.

did you like the deville? i played one at sam ash, but it was a 2x12, and it seemed great, but i figured i'd ask you for a bit of advice since you actually owned one

The 2x12 is a Deluxe, not a DeVille. They sound pretty different. Anyhow, I love the Blues DeVille/Deluxe for the price...

Chumley wrote:The 2x12 is a Deluxe, not a DeVille. They sound pretty different. Anyhow, I love the Blues DeVille/Deluxe for the price...

i could have sworn it was a 2x12 hot rod deville....it was used so it wasn't one of the hot rod 3's, which i really don't see the difference on