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D.o.S. wrote:The Car vs booze thing is really complicated--mostly because large parts of the country are so rural and removed that you essentially need access to a vehicle in a way that you don't in an urban area. But there's really no good reason to wait until you're 21 to start drinking, aside from the fact that it's against the law. Fuck the police, anarchy, crash mom's car into a ditch. Drink in class until you puke on your high school principal.

Right?

Corey Y wrote:

AxAxSxS wrote:seriously, the drive before drink thing here is so stupid. I absolutely think it should be the other way around. As it is now it just makes for problems. Also, you can serve in the military and deploy at 18, but you can't have a beer till 21? Stupid. I fully believe that folks should have had their break in period with alcohol before they have ready access to a car. I'm sure most of the US folks here have at least heard of someone who crashed or got a DUI on their 21'st birthday.

I think I probably knew (sorta, kinda) 4 or 5 people who got in drunk driving accidents before they graduated high school. No DUI, but it probably would have been a sure thing if they had lived. The last car accident my wife got into was a 17 year old running into her at high speed at a stop light, driving his dad's lifted truck, drunk something like twice over the limit or so. The last time before that it was a 16 year old girl driving her mom's giant SUV and talking on her cellphone, ramming into her from behind at high speed while at a stop sign. So yeah, it seems kind of ridiculous that kids can drive at 15/16, but alcohol is illegal until 21. Teenagers in the US drink now, everyone knows that, it's one of those "open secrets" in society. I'd rather let 16 year olds drink in bars and get the novelty of it out of their system (a few terrible hangovers and embarrassing situations will probably tone down the binge drinking a bit) and make it illegal for them to drive until they can function like a semi rational person. This is coming from someone who doesn't drink too. I can't see either of those ideas getting any traction in the US though.

humancertainty wrote:

AngryGoldfish wrote: Wah?! I did not know this. I have an album of theirs. It's not my kind of thing personally, but didn't Will used to tour with them as a bassist or something like that?

I did. I was in the band twice. To the best of my knowledge, that all happened after I left, although my role in the band was always more akin to a session musician so if he was doing that at the time I probably would not have known. Blake has been a junkie since right around when we recorded the Addicts album. As is the case with junkies, Blake stole from a lot of people, including friends, family and fans. He also lied to a lot of us.
Supposedly he is clean and trying to make amends although I highly doubt it it true. I haven't had any communication with him in almost a year so I don't really know.

assface jackson wrote:Hope all the PNW bros have amazing shows tonight, wish I could be there.

AngryGoldfish wrote:

D.o.S. wrote:The Car vs booze thing is really complicated--mostly because large parts of the country are so rural and removed that you essentially need access to a vehicle in a way that you don't in an urban area. But there's really no good reason to wait until you're 21 to start drinking, aside from the fact that it's against the law. Fuck the police, anarchy, crash mom's car into a ditch. Drink in class until you puke on your high school principal.

Right?

I'm not sure what it's like precisely in certain areas of America, but as a reference, Ireland has a lot of rural areas as well, and a small minority of the kids that finish high school at 18, if they can afford one (insurance can cost $3000 a year for an 18 year-old with either a new license or provisional license), do drive to school in their own car. In a 300 head school, one or two would have a car for a few months. But all them would have regular drinks. When I was at school I knew lads who would leave school for two hours and walk to a 'local' pub and get plastered, then come back and finish the school day. The patrons in the pubs couldn't care less who was drinking.

For the most part we rely on our parents (many of our mothers and sometimes fathers are stay at home parents) or public bus services to make the 5-10 miles to school. A few friends drove tractors around, but most of us just had to deal with it. We either cycled, hitched, walked, or pressured our parents into taking time out of their day to take us to our mates house or to football practise. Of course, I don't live in a major city. I think moose lives in Dublin or a surrounding county so probably had different experiences. But vehicle tax over here is so expensive that most young people, even college students, just can't even come close to affording their own transportation.

Harry_Manback wrote:

assface jackson wrote:Hope all the PNW bros have amazing shows tonight, wish I could be there.

D.o.S. wrote:

AngryGoldfish wrote:I'm not sure what it's like precisely in certain areas of America, but as a reference, Ireland has a lot of rural areas as well, and a small minority of the kids that finish high school at 18, if they can afford one (insurance can cost $3000 a year for an 18 year-old with either a new license or provisional license), do drive to school in their own car. In a 300 head school, one or two would have a car for a few months. But all them would have regular drinks. When I was at school I knew lads who would leave school for two hours and walk to a 'local' pub and get plastered, then come back and finish the school day. The patrons in the pubs couldn't care less who was drinking.

For the most part we rely on our parents (many of our mothers and sometimes fathers are stay at home parents) or public bus services to make the 5-10 miles to school. A few friends drove tractors around, but most of us just had to deal with it. We either cycled, hitched, walked, or pressured our parents into taking time out of their day to take us to our mates house or to football practise. Of course, I don't live in a major city. I think moose lives in Dublin or a surrounding county so probably had different experiences. But vehicle tax over here is so expensive that most young people, even college students, just can't even come close to affording their own transportation.

Right, I think the relatively affordable cost of fuel and the specter of Detroit/the American Auto industry also play into it.

There's also the fact that our public transportation is woefully underdeveloped, and that combines with our sprawling infrastructure to create a serious pain in the ass. It's why all the fun bands always seem to tour on their local coast and then hit Europe--it's too expensive to drive across the country.

assface jackson wrote:Hope all the PNW bros have amazing shows tonight, wish I could be there.

Barracuda wrote:Ahh Christmas... that time of year when even the most scraggly anti social doom lover must trim and interact with the gf's crazy extended family...

AngryGoldfish wrote:Christmas is just another day for me. I don't celebrate it. Every day is Christmas for me!