Count To Five

[taco satori]

Nope, I'm having this also

[multi_s]

I assume this has been asked before, but I'm not able to read the megathread. My earlier version is in your shop as of the end of November, I think. Is it possible to upgrade it to the current revision? And any idea of where the repair process is at?

Hi can you email me directly re this then i can sort it out/know who you are. I can return it this week regardless, however you will get the same version you sent in back.

mine does not seem to always reset the buffer length in mode 2 after stopping a loop and starting a new one. Specifically, any time you record a new loop that is shorter than the old loop, the new shorter length becomes the maximum possible length for the next loop - even if you completely stop the loop and try to record a new one. For example,

1. record a fresh 2 second loop in mode 2
2a. if you stop the loop and start recording a new one, the maximum length is 2 seconds. if you go over 2 seconds, it wraps around.
2b. if you stop the loop and record a new 1 second loop, the 1 second loop will function properly. but if you then stop that 1 second loop and try to record a new loop, 1 second is the new max time.
3. to reset the available buffer length, you can flip to mode 3 and back (with the loop not playing). then you have the full 8 seconds again.


I'm not sure if this is how it's supposed to behave, but it seems like once you stop a loop it would be nice to not be constrained by the prior loop's length.

just to clarify/follow up on this - am i the only one having this issue?

yes it is a bug in the firmware. i will fix it in the future. you can use either of the previously discussed workarounds in the meantime.

s

[zoooombiex]

mine does not seem to always reset the buffer length in mode 2 after stopping a loop and starting a new one. Specifically, any time you record a new loop that is shorter than the old loop, the new shorter length becomes the maximum possible length for the next loop - even if you completely stop the loop and try to record a new one. For example,

1. record a fresh 2 second loop in mode 2
2a. if you stop the loop and start recording a new one, the maximum length is 2 seconds. if you go over 2 seconds, it wraps around.
2b. if you stop the loop and record a new 1 second loop, the 1 second loop will function properly. but if you then stop that 1 second loop and try to record a new loop, 1 second is the new max time.
3. to reset the available buffer length, you can flip to mode 3 and back (with the loop not playing). then you have the full 8 seconds again.


I'm not sure if this is how it's supposed to behave, but it seems like once you stop a loop it would be nice to not be constrained by the prior loop's length.

just to clarify/follow up on this - am i the only one having this issue?

yes it is a bug in the firmware. i will fix it in the future. you can use either of the previously discussed workarounds in the meantime.

s

thanks - no worries! I just wanted to make sure it wasn't user error or a problem with my unit.

[Cortex]

After a 6 month period of anticipation during which I'd completely forgotten wtf ct5 even was - I finally got it and joined the club. At first, I must say that I'd been disappointed slightly, the pedal seemed totally unforgiving and hard to control. I was miserable for a day or two, but then started to get into it more and more. Now I am at a point where I can use it to some effect but am still miles away from what it has to offer. It is a very deep and complicated pedal that made me go over the manual several times. There is so much to explore and try out.

I have to praise the new transcedence mode. It is just amazing, so so useful. Currently I am using it in trans one hundred percent of the time. I really like the mode 2 with it which makes for a very nice and much more exciting alternative to the EHX Freeze (which I also own, as everybody does right). Mode 3 sliding into mode 2 and then stuttering the loop is another gem of an application, just wild and really effective. In mode 1, a consequence of recording a very short sample in mode 2 enables me to go to insanely short delay times which morph into sitar-like drones (in a key of D) which sounds amazing with some phaser and reverb after it, it's just a fantastic tool for droning for hours.

My biggest caveat with mode 3 is the difference in loudness between loop copies relative to their pitch. Here's a copy of the comment I've made on your manual page of the website/blog:

"In mode 3, PLEASE try and implement a separate volume control of the three loop copies, I think this is essential to using all three copies. If using an octave up copy it is SO much louder than anything else and just obscures the other copies and makes the whole mode almost unusable.

For example you could try using the Q toggle, when one would hold Q up for a couple of seconds the pedal would go into the loop volume mode and then one would be allowed to adjust levels using the knobs for separate loops. Then upon holding the Q toggle down for a couple of seconds the pedal would return to normal operation.

I think this would greatly improve the usability of mode 3."

One person already agreed that it is a fantastic idea. I really hope that this is feasible because it would greatly improve it.

One last thing - I am confused by the overdubbing pitch changes. Unless one is using octaved loops the overdubbing becomes painful to listen to because there is a constant clash between notes and this is because in order to be on pitch while you overdub you gotta play one thing and when it starts looping what you've just played it repeats the phrase in another pitch which is now inadequate to the pitch being played back. Sounds confusing, but ct5 owners will know what I'm referring to. I guess this stems from the design of the pedal's features but still it's very hard to control so I find myself steering away from overdubbing most of the time, which kinda defeats the purpose. Probably I just gotta practice more with it and plan ahead what I'm gonna play and all. And that's the kind of impression I get from ct5 overall, it's not very intuitive, actually it requires a lot of planning if you wanna use it to it's full potential. Everybody can make a bunch of noise and sample stuff, but if one wants to make complex passages that evolve throughout the piece (trancedence helps with this a lot) there needs to be a lot of planning involved.

There is a very steep learning curve but I am blown away by the sheer power this pedal has, it's is a very capable tool for some unorthodox sound design for sure.

[SecretMachine]

From my understanding, the issue of higher pitch (higher octaves ) = higher volume is down to how sound is perceived on a physical level, rather than the pedal itself putting out a higher volume.
Despite this, I agree, having a volume control for each loop direction would be useful.

[zoooombiex]

One last thing - I am confused by the overdubbing pitch changes. Unless one is using octaved loops the overdubbing becomes painful to listen to because there is a constant clash between notes and this is because in order to be on pitch while you overdub you gotta play one thing and when it starts looping what you've just played it repeats the phrase in another pitch which is now inadequate to the pitch being played back.

I think that situation is unavoidable with the CT5 in its current form. When a loop is playing back and you adjust the direction/speed control, you don't actually alter the original loop sitting in the buffer. The original loop sits there at its original pitch and the direction/speed just controls how it is played back. When you overdub, you are recording to that original loop in the buffer (still sitting at its original pitch); then when you are done overdubbing, the entire buffer (with the original loop and your overdubbed material) is played back according to the direction/speed controls.

E.g., you record a loop in E, then adjust the direction so it is playing a step higher in F#. The original loop is still sitting there in E. If you overdub in F# (to match the pitch as the original loop is being played back), you are layering an F# loop over the original E loop. So when that overdub gets played back, you'll hear the original loop (E shifted up to F#) and the overdub (F# shifted up to G#) being played together.

You can avoid that by overdubbing in the same key that you recorded the original loop (E in the example above). If you don't want to hear the clashing keys while you overdub, you could turn the mix to 100% wet while you overdub. (Here's where a dry kill switch would be handy.)

It sounds like you want overdubbed material to be played back at unity pitch/speed regardless of where the direction control is. That is possible (some other looping/delay pedals do that), but not on the CT5 as it currently exists.

[zoooombiex]

I hate to add to the long list of requests and suggestions, but one issue I've noticed with transcendence is when switching out of mode 1.

If you are switching out of modes 2/3 and you don't want the loop to carry over, you can stop the playback, then switch modes. But in mode 1, you can't stop the delay, so you always automatically carry over the buffer into mode 2/3. That can lead to some jarring results, particularly with shorter delay times and depending on where the buffer length and feedback controls were set while in mode 1.

This might be my own usage quirk, but I think it would be a handy option to be able to disable transcendence on a per-use basis (e.g., hold down the soft switch while switching modes to have the buffer not carry over).

Again, sorry to throw more stuff at you Scott. It's not meant to detract from how much I enjoy the pedal.

[Cortex]

Yeah, I was very surprised when I noticed that (about overdubbing pitch changes). Although, when I thought about it some more I could understand why it behaves that way, and you put it into words just like I had imagined it.

[Willem]

Can't wait to try this transcendance mode...

[multi_s]

I hate to add to the long list of requests and suggestions, but one issue I've noticed with transcendence is when switching out of mode 1.

If you are switching out of modes 2/3 and you don't want the loop to carry over, you can stop the playback, then switch modes. But in mode 1, you can't stop the delay, so you always automatically carry over the buffer into mode 2/3. That can lead to some jarring results, particularly with shorter delay times and depending on where the buffer length and feedback controls were set while in mode 1.

This might be my own usage quirk, but I think it would be a handy option to be able to disable transcendence on a per-use basis (e.g., hold down the soft switch while switching modes to have the buffer not carry over).

Again, sorry to throw more stuff at you Scott. It's not meant to detract from how much I enjoy the pedal.

Yep, so my suggestion is just turn off transcendence since that's actually defacto the purpose of the mode, and spilling over it's key feature. Think about it, if you don;t want the delay to to carry then you lose nothing by bypassing and disabling transcendence before changing modes.

And no worries, all suggestions are welcome, but I don't think the way transcendence is activated/deactivated will be changed or it's general function.

Yeah, I was very surprised when I noticed that (about overdubbing pitch changes). Although, when I thought about it some more I could understand why it behaves that way, and you put it into words just like I had imagined it.

THe recording is always at normal speed and the punch in point is always where the DIR1 head is when you hit the soft switch to overdub. With 3 heads playing at different speeds it's difficult to interpret what the "correct" recording speed would even be expected to be, particularly while they can still be changed when recording. So I just leave it 1:1 and if your original riff was say in C and then pitched up and down by the playback speed, you can just keep playing in C, it will align musically.

"In mode 3, PLEASE try and implement a separate volume control of the three loop copies, I think this is essential to using all three copies. If using an octave up copy it is SO much louder than anything else and just obscures the other copies and makes the whole mode almost unusable.

For example you could try using the Q toggle, when one would hold Q up for a couple of seconds the pedal would go into the loop volume mode and then one would be allowed to adjust levels using the knobs for separate loops. Then upon holding the Q toggle down for a couple of seconds the pedal would return to normal operation.

I think this would greatly improve the usability of mode 3."

One person already agreed that it is a fantastic idea. I really hope that this is feasible because it would greatly improve it.

It is a good idea.


s

[zoooombiex]

I hate to add to the long list of requests and suggestions, but one issue I've noticed with transcendence is when switching out of mode 1.

If you are switching out of modes 2/3 and you don't want the loop to carry over, you can stop the playback, then switch modes. But in mode 1, you can't stop the delay, so you always automatically carry over the buffer into mode 2/3. That can lead to some jarring results, particularly with shorter delay times and depending on where the buffer length and feedback controls were set while in mode 1.

This might be my own usage quirk, but I think it would be a handy option to be able to disable transcendence on a per-use basis (e.g., hold down the soft switch while switching modes to have the buffer not carry over).

Again, sorry to throw more stuff at you Scott. It's not meant to detract from how much I enjoy the pedal.

Yep, so my suggestion is just turn off transcendence since that's actually defacto the purpose of the mode, and spilling over it's key feature. Think about it, if you don;t want the delay to to carry then you lose nothing by bypassing and disabling transcendence before changing modes.

And no worries, all suggestions are welcome, but I don't think the way transcendence is activated/deactivated will be changed or it's general function.

Thanks. I appreciate that there are workarounds, but coming at it from a live band context where i generally want spillover but sometimes need to do a one-off spillover bypass on the fly while everything is still going, it's a bit cumbersome to do a global disable/re-enable. but maybe i'm just atypical in how i use it? since you were originally going back and forth about whether to make transcendence a global or one-off setting, I just thought this might be the best of both - global with the option to do a one-off bypass. just fwiw, my $.02, etc.

[Cortex]

"In mode 3, PLEASE try and implement a separate volume control of the three loop copies, I think this is essential to using all three copies. If using an octave up copy it is SO much louder than anything else and just obscures the other copies and makes the whole mode almost unusable.

For example you could try using the Q toggle, when one would hold Q up for a couple of seconds the pedal would go into the loop volume mode and then one would be allowed to adjust levels using the knobs for separate loops. Then upon holding the Q toggle down for a couple of seconds the pedal would return to normal operation.

I think this would greatly improve the usability of mode 3."

One person already agreed that it is a fantastic idea. I really hope that this is feasible because it would greatly improve it.

It is a good idea.


s

I haven't thought of it earlier, but with this approach, if let's say I had my DIR 2 at noon and then jump to the "loop volume adjustment mode" and decide to crank the volume of that loop (so effectively turn the knob full to the right), then upon exiting the "loop volume adjustment mode" and returning to the normal pedal operation I would have the DIR2 knob full up therefore changing the pitch to an octave above which is not what we want.

The only workaround I could think of would be to do it like this - enter loop volume adjustment mode (somehow, whichever way would be the easiest to program), then use the mix knob to adjust the volume of the loop copies, tap the soft switch once for assigning the mix knob (now the loop volume control) to the first loop copy, adjust volume. Tap the soft switch twice, that assigns it to loop 2, and three times to assign it to loop 3. When leaving the loop volume adjustment mode all the loops stay on the same pitch as before because they hadn't been altered during the loop volume adjustment procedure.

Or even easier, which wouldn't alter the position of the Mix knob, enter the loop adjustment mode, use the expression toggle to assign to the appropriate loop copy, then toggle the Q switch up for incremental volume or toggle it down for decremental volume levels..

[multi_s]

I haven't thought of it earlier, but with this approach, if let's say I had my DIR 2 at noon and then jump to the "loop volume adjustment mode" and decide to crank the volume of that loop (so effectively turn the knob full to the right), then upon exiting the "loop volume adjustment mode" and returning to the normal pedal operation I would have the DIR2 knob full up therefore changing the pitch to an octave above which is not what we want.

The only workaround I could think of would be to do it like this - enter loop volume adjustment mode (somehow, whichever way would be the easiest to program), then use the mix knob to adjust the volume of the loop copies, tap the soft switch once for assigning the mix knob (now the loop volume control) to the first loop copy, adjust volume. Tap the soft switch twice, that assigns it to loop 2, and three times to assign it to loop 3. When leaving the loop volume adjustment mode all the loops stay on the same pitch as before because they hadn't been altered during the loop volume adjustment procedure.

Or even easier, which wouldn't alter the position of the Mix knob, enter the loop adjustment mode, use the expression toggle to assign to the appropriate loop copy, then toggle the Q switch up for incremental volume or toggle it down for decremental volume levels..

its not that complicated. the knobs can behave like when you adjust the filter in mode 1 with DIR 1. Say you enter teh filter adjustment with DIR1 at 3 o clock, while adjusting the lpf the DIR1 setting does not change. Say you adjust it to 9 o clock, when you leave the filter adjustment the DIR1 setting stays at 3 oclock even though the knob is at 9 o clock. It stays that way until you move DIR1, ie intentionally want to change it. So the volume and speed can be set by the same knob.

double and triple tapping as a gesture is too annoying i find and the mix knob is not connected to the cpu, it is totally an analog circuit at the end of the entire chain so it's position cannot be detected by the dsp unfortunately.

[Cortex]

Hm, you are right, I forgot that the lpf functions like that. That would be good enough I guess. It would be fantastic haha

[Cortex]

Exactly!