ilovefuzz.com

echorec wrote:
Have we learned nothing from the Unabomber's manifesto?

Yes, we've learned that Ted Kaczynski is crazy, while I tend to think of aens_wife as mostly sane.

echorec wrote:
Have we learned nothing from the Unabomber's manifesto?

Was just thinking this

Anyone else more surprised that echorec made it out of one of his own threads than that he's a Ted K fan?

echorec wrote: Have we learned nothing from the Unabomber's manifesto?

I have.

I moved here as fellow Chicago boy to the wilds of Idaho, and didn't live in a shack nor get arrested for bombing shit.

Jesus Was a Robot wrote: One thing I will say about the Toneczar I have. Regardless of how much I love the pedals, the price point is literally insane, especially on the used market. The mark up is hype plus wait time frustrations. They are a bit of an anomaly in the market though but it's a good example of insane pricing.

So here's the thing, you still bought the pedal.

Yes, sometimes a builder prices something with a profit margin that seems egregious; but if people are willing to pay the price, the product will sell. The free market, capitalism, the whole 9 yards. These things are more prevalent and widespread in the pedal industry now than ever, but this has been going on for decades in the music industry as a whole and will continue to as long as the current system is in place.

& Jwar I'm not trying to single you out in particular, I'm just trying to illustrate a point. I've been reading this thread since it began and I've been trying to find a worthwhile way to contribute, because it seems like most arguments are missing the bigger picture. edit: I was mistaken, greyscale and Brian among others offered good arguments.

However, I think this sums everything up pretty nicely:

aens_wife wrote: You guys seem to want your cake and you want to eat it too. Can't have it both ways, my friends.

Kibbles I think you missed this bit from page one as your final quote

Eivind August wrote:I only listen to early Instagram likes, thank you very much.

Also, speaking in generalities, there is a difference between paying "absurd" amounts of moneyfor a very niche piece of kit with a long wait time and examining the list price of a highly marketed/upvoted/"pound that like button!" piece of gear for people too stupid to buy a computer. These are two different knots you're attempting to slice with the same knife.

For the record, I haven't looked at the CBA pedal that folks keep alluding to, so this isn't my opinion on that disguised as shade.

I've found I don't take good advantage of all the features of the Chase Bliss pedals. So, in that sense, I'm in jwar's camp (pants?).

I do, however, think they're worth the money. Just not for me.

aens_wife wrote: Unless you know the costs and profit margins of a particular builder, you really can't say what they should be charging. I think that Chase Bliss pricing is spot on for what it is.

Speaking of the having and the eating of cake....

D.o.S. wrote:Anyone else more surprised that echorec made it out of one of his own threads than that he's a Ted K fan?

I wonder how many other people have been told not to come back after day #1 at improv class.

Wait how did you pull that one off?

D.o.S. wrote:Also, speaking in generalities, there is a difference between paying "absurd" amounts of moneyfor a very niche piece of kit with a long wait time and examining the list price of a highly marketed/upvoted/"pound that like button!" piece of gear for people too stupid to buy a computer. These are two different knots you're attempting to slice with the same knife.

This is a fair point, however Im not sure its applicable in this specific example. Check the prices:
http://www.toneczar.com/pedals.htm

D.o.S. wrote:

aens_wife wrote: Unless you know the costs and profit margins of a particular builder, you really can't say what they should be charging. I think that Chase Bliss pricing is spot on for what it is.

Speaking of the having and the eating of cake....

Also the internet implies that Dwarfcraft and Chase Bliss are buds, so I would imagine Louise was alluding to the fact that she has an idea of what their margins are.

Sure, but it speaks to what is an inevitable blindspot for builders regarding what is essentially a consumer discussion. Because they're not consumers, they have a vested interest in healthy/livable margins.* it's also because they're not consumers that they can gauge a product as reasonable or unreasonable based on metrics like margins... which don't apply to consumers.

This is why we've had builders saying the same thing since page one, and while it's a good thing to acknowledge, I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that we're talking about the same thing in the same way, because (by virtue of different habitation spaces in the pedal ecosystem) we're not.

I.e. pointing out that consumers don't have the facts to assess pricing like builders kind of misses the point of the thread, to my mind.


*for the knuckledraggers, obviously no one is trying to begrudge any pedal companies a standard of living by virtue of their pricing

I would agree that builders and consumers do have different perspectives, and it is an important distinction to be made. But, we are consumers gauging a products worth on the profit margins the builder, that's what this whole thread is about. So we are making the same judgement but from a different perspective.

My point is, I don't have to agree with a builder's mark-up. I won't buy it if I think something is too expensive. There's plenty of shit I would love to have that I don't, and there's plenty of shit I've bought that I've thought maybe was overpriced, but I justified it for one reason or another.

I guess my beef was the premise that certain things should or shouldn't cost a certain amount. Because something's value is, like, relative, man

i don't know if i have a horse in this race...i've bought $40 pedals and $300 pedals, but the criterion was always that i really, really liked the sound. there's definitely a stopping point; i don't see myself buying any more $300+ pedals unless i absolutely can't live without that sound. so far i'm pretty settled with the stuff i have now. i don't think i've bought anything new in 2 or 2.5 years, and most of the newer stuff really doesn't do anything for me. e.g. the Chase Bliss stuff is cool, but i don't really have an application for that stuff.