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waltdogg wrote:do you not like marshalls?

I'm guessing this was towards me. I do like Marshalls, I love plexis, but Marshall has a way bigger bottom end than the Science Hellhawk. I was also told the Hellhawk was lightly based on an old Ampeg not a Marshall. The Hellhawk also doesn't have that Marshall mids character. Also tone can come down to anything and the biggest being a persons ear. I play through and OS 2x12 cab with a scumback H75 and a Weber Thames so it's def not a matter of having shitty speakers either because that's usually where these conversations go next. I haven't written off Science as a whole, just the Hellhawk. My bad cat hot cat 50 destroyed it (kind of Marshall like) and my Matchless Clubman is the best amp I've owned so I'm not sure I'll be switching it up for a while unless I come across something with an ef86 based preamp because I dont think I can go back to 12ax7 after playing ef86. So steely and 3D sounding!

Totally fair assessment, I have never played a matchless or a bad cat because I never liked the aesthetics as petty as that may actually be! I would love to hear all sorts of assessments because a lot of times you can make an informed decision without some negative response. I feel like something that gets nothing but gushing reviews can sometimes be off putting because if your a cynical fuck like me, it can raise some fanboi alerts. When I get my mother I'll give an honest review regarding how I feel about it that's for sure. I'm sure to like it, but we shall see if I love it!

I do have to add a side note, I hate when people say something sounds 3D, like as though that really means much. Then again most of those sound terms we come up with really don't mean anything. Someones warm is another persons muddy etc etc

sergiomunoz74 wrote:
I do have to add a side note, I hate when people say something sounds 3D, like as though that really means much. Then again most of those sound terms we come up with really don't mean anything. Someones warm is another persons muddy etc etc

I completely understand what you're saying with the "3D" response... I think if you ever play an amp with an ef86 pre amp section, you'll understand the term better, that's just the term they use to describe the difference in feel. Not the best way to describe it but it's what they call "that thing"...

Back to science.... I love Hiwatts and that is what the mother is supposed to be based on so I'd love to hear a review on it. Again, I've only tried the Hellhawk. And just so we're clear I'm not someone who had any sort of connection to my Gear, I buy sell and trade constantly and have had close to 100 amp heads and most being "boutique". I say that because I believe I have a very large range of amplifiers to compare to. So if I were to compare the Hellhawk to other amps I've played, I'd unfortunately have to say a Marshall DSL 100...

AlexGlassLungs wrote:

sergiomunoz74 wrote:
I do have to add a side note, I hate when people say something sounds 3D, like as though that really means much. Then again most of those sound terms we come up with really don't mean anything. Someones warm is another persons muddy etc etc

I completely understand what you're saying with the "3D" response... I think if you ever play an amp with an ef86 pre amp section, you'll understand the term better, that's just the term they use to describe the difference in feel. Not the best way to describe it but it's what they call "that thing"...

Back to science.... I love Hiwatts and that is what the mother is supposed to be based on so I'd love to hear a review on it. Again, I've only tried the Hellhawk. And just so we're clear I'm not someone who had any sort of connection to my Gear, I buy sell and trade constantly and have had close to 100 amp heads and most being "boutique". I say that because I believe I have a very large range of amplifiers to compare to. So if I were to compare the Hellhawk to other amps I've played, I'd unfortunately have to say a Marshall DSL 100...

Yeesh, Marshall DSL100. I'd love to hear someone else's response on that for sure. I probably should try an amp with EF86 though.

Hiwatts are definitely some of my favorite amps and I've thought about buying vintage but I have had major headaches with true vintage amps. I had an OR120 which was my favorite amp just absolute shit the bed several times and a laney that also had a problem pretty quick into its life span. Either way, I'm still waiting on getting tagged bag regarding the whole 4 week thing so in the mean time, I'm just laying low and selling stuff that I don't need to compensate for the loss.

Soon...

i find consumer boutique amps like bad cats and such to be utter shit and overpriced and never sound half as good as my hellhawk does to me. but to each his own. though i spent countless hours going through sets of tubes and have a vintage 12ax7 from a hammond organ in my v1 position. that's key. the modern production tubes that come in your new science (or ANY new amp for that matter) probably won't do the amp much justice.

in truth, my my tone is a v-4 blended with my hellhawk and a bunch of pedals in front so it's not just all about the amp but i do love how it sounds when i use it on it's own.

the mother compared to a real hiwatt was much beefier and the od section reminded my of a matamp, especially in conjunction with the depth control.

waltdogg wrote: the mother compared to a real hiwatt was much beefier and the od section reminded my of a matamp, especially in conjunction with the depth control.

OOOOOO weeeeeeee that is what I wanted to hear. That exactly what I'm looking for.

Although I'm interested what kind of tubes and where I can find them. Because around the area old hammonds in rotting condition are generally easy to find maybe I can tube test them or something. Either that or find something similar for the pre-amp section. I dont want to deal with vintage power tubes to be honest unless they are NOS

i'd get a vintage 12ax7 for v1, current production tung-sols for all the other 12ax7 positions, and a military grade 12at7 for the phase inverter.

in my hellhawk i have the vintage 12ax7, a current production tung-sol, and a sovtek 12ax7lps for the phase inverter. jj e34ls for extra low end and even more breakup than the hellhawk's overdriven power section already gives you.

see, i don''t just give an amp a "chance," i put it though it's paces, try different tubes, different amps to run it stereo with, multiple guitars, and pedal selections, etc.

waltdogg wrote:i'd get a vintage 12ax7 for v1, current production tung-sols for all the other 12ax7 positions, and a military grade 12at7 for the phase inverter.

in my hellhawk i have the vintage 12ax7, a current production tung-sol, and a sovtek 12ax7lps for the phase inverter. jj e34ls for extra low end and even more breakup than the hellhawk's overdriven power section already gives you.

see, i don''t just give an amp a "chance," i put it though it's paces, try different tubes, different amps to run it stereo with, multiple guitars, and pedal selections, etc.

Do you know what brand that vintage 12ax7 you have in yours???

its a hammond branded made in holland ecc83 from the 60s or 70s. still tests strong and has no microphonic properties. i got it from a seller on ebay who was parting out old organ parts. and i just happened to get lucky with one good one out of two or three i bought for about $40-$60. going through a reputable tube dealer will cost you an arm and a leg for a single made in holland 12ax7.

That's all good to know and something that I might try. I've only ever used the tubes that came with an amp. Haven't had any go bad yet, knock on wood.

I keep searching for "soon!" GIFs because my amp should be done soon, and I'm super excited!

mathias wrote:That's all good to know and something that I might try. I've only ever used the tubes that came with an amp. Haven't had any go bad yet, knock on wood.

I keep searching for "soon!" GIFs because my amp should be done soon, and I'm super excited!

You and me both!! I know he had the tolex last week for mine, which means its getting into the home stretch!

I'm trying not to be a pest to Alex. I love that he's on top of emails, though. A lot of other companies have a lot to learn from Science about customer service.

mathias wrote:I'm trying to be a pest to Alex. I love that he's on top of emails, though. A lot of other companies have a lot to learn from Science about customer service.

never had a better custy. experience in my life, dealing with alex.

modern production tubes are a crapshoot, sometimes they'll last forever, sometimes they're dead from the factory. sometimes they don't even sound like the tube their supposed to. jj and shuguang are good examples of this, alex prefers jj preamp tubes for their longevity/low noise and shuguang power tubes for their consistency (though i think they sound like ass compared to the actual tube they're supposed to be, i.e. chinese el34s sound like 6l6s to me at least, and i can't stand 6l6 amps).

Aren't V4's essentially 6l6 amps?