After this's all over, I hope the U.S. gov't bills Trump for the damage he's done to our reputation

[Strange Tales]

The only thing I have about abortion is that my friend saw a prolife rally in DC last weekend, and it compared sizes of an aborted fetus to a quarter and the first thing out of his mouth was "Oh cool, get an abortion and you get a free quarter."

Free first pass ticket to hell acquired.

[D.o.S.]

really the only thing I didn't like about your position jwar is that you said you would never change your position, that says to me that you wouldn't be willing to listen to others regardless of how good or bad their argument is; and I think that's a close minded way of seeing things.

The are legally obligated to vote with the popular vote. How is forced not a good term?

from the thing you linked me
"There is no Constitutional provision or Federal law that requires Electors to vote according to the results of the popular vote in their States."
"The Supreme Court has not specifically ruled on the question of whether pledges and penalties for failure to vote as pledged may be enforced under the Constitution. No Elector has ever been prosecuted for failing to vote as pledged"
so basically there is currently no precedent for punishing someone who wouldn't vote along with their party or w/e; but maybe this isn't worth debating
the same section also points out that 99% of the electoral college votes as they pledge to before the election; so I guess the only bullshit is if they emulate the shitty popular vote because most Americans don't show up to the pools.

Yeah I would like to talk more about this, insofar as I will point out that basically what happens when you don't vote as pledged is that you don't get asked back for the next go-around.

[hbombgraphics]

Moving on is a good idea,
And I think most people have beliefs that they will not change regardless of arguments,

I also don't think saying "I'll never change" Is any more dismissive than saying someone's belief is "stupid"
They both draw a hard line.

So far this is still the most civil political debate I have seen on the internet, so that's good.

[D.o.S.]

One last thing: I think that most people here would agree that abortion is not particularly something that they would wish to impose their own views onto someone else, regardless of what they may be. It seems to me that it is one of the most personal problems (if you will) that someone can have, beyond advanced knowledge of a terminal diagnosis or the like.

[Chankgeez]

I will say that I do believe our collective death will most likely come by our own hand though.

[D.o.S.]

That is the most metal thing you've ever said.

Ever.

[Chankgeez]

[hbombgraphics]

That is the most metal thing you've ever said.

Ever.

[Jwar]

Well from what I read it is supposed to be a state requirement to vote with the popular vote, again in like half the states, the others don't have to vote one way or another. They get to choose. To me that's scarier. I don't like the idea of some dim wit that has had his political pockets lined, voting for my state. COUGH Brownback COUGH. But what can I do? I live in Kansas, which is ultra Conservative and they will vote for the Zodiac Killer Ted Cruz if he's on the ballot, which he could be. Who knows.

Trump seems to be pisssing more and more people off, so I'd be surprised if he train wasn't derailed soon. Hillary is Hillary and under 4 separate FBI active investigations. Sanders is loved by most, at least it appears so.

I almost wonder if this will end up being Sanders vs. Cruz.

What frustrates me though is that my vote counts, but it doesn't. It's like false hope. They contradict themselves in their own literature.

I've been told that the Electoral College was put into place to overturn the votes of those that were not competent enough to vote. Now who decides that? Who says, well that guys a dumb ass because he vote for candidate X or Y. I mean, they aren't going to research each voter and get a true understanding of who they are. So how do they make their decisions?

The whole process just seem dumb to me. There ought to be a better way.

[D.o.S.]

Yeah I could see why living in Kansas would sour you on anything govt. related. Brownback seems to have totally fucked the state without an ounce of consideration for anything.

These people aren't pocket lined dim wits, though, bro. That' ficticious.

[Jwar]

My beliefs are NOT dumb to me.

well, that's pretty universal. just so you know, i'm against your stance on this and your way of thinking on voting through your beliefs instead of logic. in any other thread regarding any other issue i'm not one to bring this with me, this is separate.

Why wouldn't I change my mind on this believe? Well, it's something that engrained in the fiber of my being. I value life. I would never destroy it. My wife had to have a DNC, which is classified as an abortion even though the baby wasn't alive and that tore me up, and I still think about the life we lost to this day (it happened 12 years ago). My brother and his wife had one and I cried my eyes out. It's part of who I am that makes me who I am. I like me, so I refuse to change certain viewpoints as they are what I truly believe to be right. But that's my decision.

I can get with that, but you'd rather force other people to have that baby that you didn't have 12 yrs ago?

But someone felt the need to still "call me out" on it. Which is asinine and absurd. You presume your beliefs are greater than mine because it's what you believe. That's is foolish to say the least.

that someone was me, and i did so mostly BECAUSE you deleted your post. Yeah I presume my beliefs greater than yours on this matter because yours are based in religion. If you had come to this conclusion outside of that, I wouldn't. There'd be a debate, sure, but basing your values on religion leaves no room for change, as you admitted, since it goes against your beliefs.
I think that what you said earlier is quite valid, how, if we wait long enough, an abortion is taking a life. Those definitions are really hard, but shouldn't be decided upon by religion, they should be decided through reason.

Your belief in this is forcing people to have children they can't afford to take care of, emotionally or economically, and you yourself didn't even have to do it. And you base this on the fairy tale your parents forced on you.

Now let's move on from this talk and talk about the greater issues at hand.

This is the greatest issue at hand, imo. I don't agree with you on this specific issue, and there are lots of people believing in things you probably find incredibly fucking stupid - oftentimes this comes from their religious belief. How many people in any of the scandinavian, mostly atheist, countries would vote for trump? or bush? we're pretty stupid too at times, for sure, but what I see the US entertaining as leader of the country is fucking incredible (on this we can agree).

All of this will be reflected in who the people vote for, and so a large part in the deciding factor of who gets to be the one holding the nuclear launch codes will be decided by idiots believing in fairy tales.

I am not doing this with you, like I stated. It's not worth it. If you can't move on that's your issue.

[Strange Tales]

Trump seems to be pisssing more and more people off, so I'd be surprised if he train wasn't derailed soon.

http://www.theonion.com/article/will-be ... nerv-52002

[D.o.S.]

You are punished, just not prosecuted.

[Jwar]

I wonder what the punishment is. I haven't read about that part.

It occurs to me that I may do a write in for the Terminator.

[D.o.S.]

Like I've already said, you basically don't get asked back for the next election.