After this's all over, I hope the U.S. gov't bills Trump for the damage he's done to our reputation

[decomposing]

The electoral college also needs to be done away with. It's fucking bullshit. We need to go with the popular vote IMO. Otherwise, what is the point in voting?

exactly. it's not a democracy. it's a republic. but of what?
it's all about money. which isn't on a gold standard.
we're fucked if we don't stand together on something that matters.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLV4_xaYynY[/youtube]
"No reason to get excited, "
The thief – he kindly spoke,
"There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hour's getting late."

[decomposing]

You're all still wrong about this. I think Trump speaks to exactly why the electoral college is a good idea.

good point. because the masses are asses.
but they all can be bought.
so the only way to fix it really is education and through that hopefully empathy.

[Jwar]

So we allow 600 people to decide our fate?

The Electoral College is bullshit. It's based on what the State wants and a lot of the states force them to vote one way or another. Only certain states have leeway in their voting.

This part KILLS me and it's from learnnc.org

"IV. Does my vote count?

Yes, your vote counts. Some people have complained since 2000 that if the winner of the popular vote doesn't become president, their vote doesn't really count, so why vote at all? But every vote does count; it just counts in a more complicated way. When you vote for president, remember that you're voting in a state election, not a national election. So your vote counts just as much as anyone else's in your state — but it may count more or less than that of someone living in another state!"


Sooooooooooooooooooooooo...my vote counts but the popular vote, IE who the people vote for, doesn't make the voted for candidate President. Great...why am I not voting for a National Election again?


Re- The Hillary Clinton thing. There is a laundry list of wrong doings through her history that you can easily access. She is a criminal. I'm sorry. She's a damn liar and she contradicts the shit out of herself.

I'm almost about to look the other way on the abortion thing and vote for Sanders anyway. It's a very important issue to me, but I just can't see Trump or Clinton winning.

[Jwar]

I'm sorry I said that backwards. There are certain states that require them to follow the popular vote and certain states do not require it.


Here's are the states that have no requirement of following the popular vote system.


ARIZONA
ARKANSAS
DELAWARE
GEORGIA
IDAHO
ILLINOIS
INDIANA
IOWA
KANSAS
KENTUCKY
LOUISIANA
MINNESOTA

MISSOURI
NEW HAMPSHIRE
NEW JERSEY
NEW YORK
NORTH DAKOTA
PENNSYLVANIA
RHODE ISLAND
SOUTH DAKOTA
TENNESSEE
TEXAS
UTAH
WEST VIRGINIA

[decomposing]

Here's the latest poll out of Illinois, the second largest state voting on Tuesday:
http://www.inquisitr.com/2884101/bernie ... re-voting/
CBS News - Illinois - 3/13
Bernie Sanders: 48%
Hillary Clinton: 46%

and this sums up why I think bernie is the man we need now
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpgJYNaIeqo[/youtube]

[Chankgeez]

Exactly. jwar might've missed his chance on that.

The Kansas caucus has come and gone. Sanders won there, but there may not be another opportunity to cast a vote for him.

[ChetMagongalo]

So we allow 600 people to decide our fate?

No, the electoral college makes 600 people's vote have more influence than 600 common citizens, the electoral college wasn't designed and isn't meant to turn the tides of a vote, and while it hypothetically could, it has not, and probably won't, as members of electoral college are under public pressure to represent the interests of their constituents (ie they are under pressure to closely match the popular vote)

The Electoral College is bullshit. It's based on what the State wants and a lot of the states force them to vote one way or another. Only certain states have leeway in their voting.

I think force is the wrong word, they aren't forced to vote a certain way.

I'm almost about to look the other way on the abortion thing and vote for Sanders anyway. It's a very important issue to me, but I just can't see Trump or Clinton winning.

What don't you like about his stance on abortion

[Chankgeez]

( I knew what you meant. )

People who're religious have a different view on the abortion issue.

[decomposing]

uh, no. i mean. he has a problem with sanders stance on abortion?

which, btw, is this (from google):

The decision about abortion is a decision for a woman and her doctor to make, not the government. I will not allow the right wing to deny women control over their own bodies by forcing clinics to close, extending waiting periods, or inventing other methods that create de facto abortion bans..-

like, how is that even an issue.

seems like he actually cares about the people
and rebuilding this nation
it's gonna be hard work
but we're soft these days
we do not need more of the same or any hatemongers in power
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XmW_LMi6Z4[/youtube]

[Jwar]

Fuck this

[Jwar]

So we allow 600 people to decide our fate?

No, the electoral college makes 600 people's vote have more influence than 600 common citizens, the electoral college wasn't designed and isn't meant to turn the tides of a vote, and while it hypothetically could, it has not, and probably won't, as members of electoral college are under public pressure to represent the interests of their constituents (ie they are under pressure to closely match the popular vote)

The Electoral College is bullshit. It's based on what the State wants and a lot of the states force them to vote one way or another. Only certain states have leeway in their voting.

I think force is the wrong word, they aren't forced to vote a certain way.

I'm almost about to look the other way on the abortion thing and vote for Sanders anyway. It's a very important issue to me, but I just can't see Trump or Clinton winning.

What don't you like about his stance on abortion

The are legally obligated to vote with the popular vote. How is forced not a good term?


Im just going to post this and you can read it if you want.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-registe ... about.html

[Jwar]

I don't take offense but I have a right to my beliefs just like anyone else.

You did not catch me. I simply do not feel like debating my morals with you. It's not worth my time or effort. I've had these discussions many, many times and they do not end well.

[ChetMagongalo]

really the only thing I didn't like about your position jwar is that you said you would never change your position, that says to me that you wouldn't be willing to listen to others regardless of how good or bad their argument is; and I think that's a close minded way of seeing things.

The are legally obligated to vote with the popular vote. How is forced not a good term?

from the thing you linked me
"There is no Constitutional provision or Federal law that requires Electors to vote according to the results of the popular vote in their States."
"The Supreme Court has not specifically ruled on the question of whether pledges and penalties for failure to vote as pledged may be enforced under the Constitution. No Elector has ever been prosecuted for failing to vote as pledged"
so basically there is currently no precedent for punishing someone who wouldn't vote along with their party or w/e; but maybe this isn't worth debating
the same section also points out that 99% of the electoral college votes as they pledge to before the election; so I guess the only bullshit is if they emulate the shitty popular vote because most Americans don't show up to the pools.

[Jwar]

and what i'm saying is there are millions of people out there with beliefs far dumber than what i consider yours to be, and they are voting too, and if you can't separate your beliefs from who you vote for, why should they, or why would they even be able to.

Tie back in to "are the people smart enough to vote"

My beliefs are NOT dumb to me. But on the counter side of things, I think liberal beliefs are dumb, so why not right?

I guarantee you that most people voting don't have a fucking clue about anything. I've followed this election process closer than any other I've been able to be apart of. So if anything, I'm pretty educated with the information provided.





Why wouldn't I change my mind on this believe? Well, it's something that engrained in the fiber of my being. I value life. I would never destroy it. My wife had to have a DNC, which is classified as an abortion even though the baby wasn't alive and that tore me up, and I still think about the life we lost to this day (it happened 12 years ago). My brother and his wife had one and I cried my eyes out. It's part of who I am that makes me who I am. I like me, so I refuse to change certain viewpoints as they are what I truly believe to be right. But that's my decision.

Again, I've heard it all too. I've had many, many people try to change my opinion over the years, very smart people that have debated with me for hours. It doesn't matter. It's what I believe. Just like when I've had atheists and trust me, this has been happening my entire life, try to convince me there's no God. I don't believe that and chose to have faith. That's who I am. I wasn't always so full of faith, but I am now. I've also had people tell me I'm going to hell because I'm a Catholic. No matter what you believe, someone else believe different.

I wouldn't presume that I would be able to change anyone's mind here and that is not something I'm interested in. However if you would ever like to have a private discussion about it, I'd be up for it.

This kind of shit tears people apart, much like this election. I have no interest in going down this road. That's why I deleted my post. But someone felt the need to still "call me out" on it. Which is asinine and absurd. You presume your beliefs are greater than mine because it's what you believe. That's is foolish to say the least.


Now let's move on from this talk and talk about the greater issues at hand.

[Chankgeez]

Now let's move on from this talk and talk about the greater issues at hand.

Yeah, I agree.

This thread's made it this far and has remained civil for the most part. I'd like to keep it that way.