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Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:03 pm
by Mudfuzz
casecandy wrote:Iommic Pope wrote:None, just hoardes of douchebags everywhere.
I'm going to tentatively say that this is true.
I suppose Juggalos count as an incredibly insular "scene," so I will give them one scene. That's what they've influenced.
Vs. The Smiths...
Critics have called them the most important alternative rock band to emerge from the British independent music scene of the 1980s. Q magazine's Simon Goddard argued in 2007 that The Smiths were "the one truly vital voice of the '80s", "the most influential British guitar group of the decade" and the "first indie outsiders to achieve mainstream success on their own terms". The NME named the Smiths the "most influential artist ever" in a 2002 poll, even topping the Beatles...
The Smiths had several singles reach the UK top twenty and all four of their studio albums reached the UK top five, including one which topped the charts...
The band's focus on a guitar, bass, and drum sound, and their fusion of 1960s rock and post-punk, were a repudiation of synthesizer-based contemporary dance-pop – the style popular in the early 1980s. Marr's guitar-playing on his Rickenbacker often had a jangly sound... [influencing] later Manchester bands, including The Stone Roses and Oasis.
No contest, Mud

Again, to get my point you sometimes have always assume sarcasm… sighs…
Sarcasm is "a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter gibe or taunt."[1][2] Sarcasm may employ ambivalence,[3] although sarcasm is not necessarily ironic.[4] "The distinctive quality of sarcasm is present in the spoken word and manifested chiefly by vocal inflections".[5] The sarcastic content of a statement will be dependent upon the context in which it appears.[6]
Contents [hide]
1 Origin of the term
2 Usage
3 Understanding
4 Vocal indication
5 Punctuation
6 Identifying sarcasm
7 See also
8 References
9 External links
Origin of the term
The word comes from the Greek σαρκασμός (sarkasmos) which is taken from σαρκάζειν meaning "to tear flesh, bite the lip in rage, sneer".[1]
It is first recorded in English in 1579, in an annotation to The Shepheardes Calender by Edmund Spenser:
Tom piper, an ironicall Sarcasmus, spoken in derision of these rude wits, whych ...[1]
However, the word sarcastic, meaning "Characterized by or involving sarcasm; given to the use of sarcasm; bitterly cutting or caustic", doesn't appear until 1695.[1]
Usage
In its entry on irony, Dictionary.com describes sarcasm thus:
In sarcasm, ridicule or mockery is used harshly, often crudely and contemptuously, for destructive purposes. It may be used in an indirect manner, and have the form of irony, as in "What a fine musician you turned out to be!," "It's like you're a whole different person now...," and "Oh... Well then thanks for all the first aid over the years!" or it may be used in the form of a direct statement, "You couldn't play one piece correctly if you had two assistants." The distinctive quality of sarcasm is present in the spoken word and manifested chiefly by vocal inflection ...[7]
Distinguishing sarcasm from banter, and referring to the use of irony in sarcasm, Bousfield writes [8] that sarcasm is:
The use of strategies which, on the surface appear to be appropriate to the situation, but are meant to be taken as meaning the opposite in terms of face management. That is, the utterance which appears, on the surface, to maintain or enhance the face of the recipient actually attacks and damages the face of the recipient. ... sarcasm is an insincere form of politeness which is used to offend one's interlocutor.
John Haiman writes: "There is an extremely close connection between sarcasm and irony, and literary theorists in particular often treat sarcasm as simply the crudest and least interesting form of irony." Also, he adds:
First, situations may be ironic, but only people can be sarcastic. Second, people may be unintentionally ironic, but sarcasm requires intention. What is essential to sarcasm is that it is overt irony intentionally used by the speaker as a form of verbal aggression.[9]
While, Henry Watson Fowler writes:
Sarcasm does not necessarily involve irony. But irony, or the use of expressions conveying different things according as they are interpreted, is so often made the vehicle of sarcasm ... The essence of sarcasm is the intention of giving pain by (ironical or other) bitter words.[10]
Understanding
Understanding the subtlety of this usage requires second-order interpretation of the speaker's or writer's intentions; different parts of the brain must work together to understand sarcasm. This sophisticated understanding can be lacking in some people with certain forms of brain damage, dementia and autism (although not always),[11] and this perception has been located by MRI in the right parahippocampal gyrus.[12][13] Research has shown that people with damage in the prefrontal cortex have difficulty understanding non-verbal aspects of language like tone, Richard Delmonico, a neuropsychologist at the University of California, Davis, told an interviewer.[14] Such research could help doctors distinguish between different types of neurodegenerative diseases, such as frontotemporal dementia and Alzheimer's disease, according to David Salmon, a neuroscientist at the University of California, San Diego.[14]
In William Brant's Critique of Sarcastic Reason,[15] sarcasm is hypothesized to develop as a cognitive and emotional tool that adolescents use in order to test the borders of politeness and truth in conversation. Sarcasm recognition and expression both require the development of understanding forms of language, especially if sarcasm occurs without a cue or signal (e.g., a sarcastic tone or rolling the eyes). Sarcasm is argued to be more sophisticated than lying because lying is expressed as early as the age of three, but sarcastic expressions take place much later during development (Brant, 2012). According to Brant (2012, 145-6), sarcasm is
(a) form of expression of language often including the assertion of a statement that is disbelieved by the expresser (e.g., where the sentential meaning is disbelieved by the expresser), although the intended meaning is different from the sentence meaning. The recognition of sarcasm without the accompaniment of a cue develops around the beginning of adolescence or later. Sarcasm involves the expression of an insulting remark that requires the interpreter to understand the negative emotional connotation of the expresser within the context of the situation at hand. Irony, contrarily, does not include derision, unless it is sarcastic irony. The problems with these definitions and the reason why this dissertation does not thoroughly investigate the distinction between irony and sarcasm involves the ideas that: (1) people can pretend to be insulted when they are not or pretend not to be insulted when they are seriously offended; (2) an individual may feel ridiculed directly after the comment and then find it humorous or neutral thereafter; and (3) the individual may not feel insulted until years after the comment was expressed and considered.
Cultural perspectives on sarcasm vary widely with more than a few cultures and linguistic groups finding it offensive to varying degrees. Thomas Carlyle despised it: "Sarcasm I now see to be, in general, the language of the devil; for which reason I have long since as good as renounced it".[16] Fyodor Dostoyevsky, on the other hand, recognized in it a cry of pain: Sarcasm, he said, was "usually the last refuge of modest and chaste-souled people when the privacy of their soul is coarsely and intrusively invaded."[17] RFC 1855, a collection of guidelines for Internet communications, includes a warning to be especially careful with it as it "may not travel well." A professional translator has advised that international business executives "should generally avoid sarcasm in intercultural business conversations and written communications" because of the difficulties in translating sarcasm.[18]
Vocal indication
In English, sarcasm is often telegraphed with kinesic/prosodic cues[19] by speaking more slowly and with a lower pitch. Similarly, Dutch uses a lowered pitch; sometimes to such an extent that the expression is reduced to a mere mumble. But other research shows that there are many ways that real speakers signal sarcastic intentions. One study found that in Cantonese, sarcasm is indicated by raising the fundamental frequency of one's voice.[20]
Punctuation
Main article: Irony punctuation
Though in the English language there is no standard accepted method to denote irony or sarcasm in written conversation, several forms of punctuation have been proposed. Among the oldest and frequently attested are the percontation point—furthered by Henry Denham in the 1580s—and the irony mark—furthered by Alcanter de Brahm in the 19th century. Both of these marks were represented visually by a ⸮ backwards question mark (unicode U+2E2E). Each of these punctuation marks are primarily used to indicate that a sentence should be understood as ironic, but not necessarily designate sarcasm that is not ironic. By contrast, more recent proposals, such as the snark mark, or the use of a following tilde are specifically intended to denote sarcasm rather than irony.[21] A bracketed exclamation point or question mark as well as scare quotes are also sometimes used to express irony or ironic sarcasm.[22]
In certain Ethiopic languages, sarcasm and unreal phrases are indicated at the end of a sentence with a sarcasm mark called temherte slaq, a character that looks like an inverted exclamation point ¡.[23] The usage directly parallels John Wilkins' 1668 proposal to use the inverted exclamation point as an irony mark.[24] A proposal by Asteraye Tsigie and Daniel Yacob in 1999 to include the temherte slaq in unicode was unsuccessful.[25]
Identifying sarcasm
A French company has developed an analytics tool that claims to have up to 80% accuracy in identifying sarcastic comments posted online.[26]
In June 2014, the United States Secret Service requested bids for software that would identify sarcasm in tweets.[27]
See also
Irony
Oxymoron
Paradox
Sardonicism
Smirk
Snarl
Sneer
Tongue-in-cheek
Witticism
As in I never said anything about influence… I know enough about
engrish jangly rock to understand the importance or the… Beatles...

But no wait I mean it.. I know that sound and there are many bands to have been influenced by them for whatever reason.
Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:22 am
by daseb
dude was definitely getting those jelly beans to help mellow out his faygo induced betes.
Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:19 am
by D.o.S.
casecandy wrote:Iommic Pope wrote:None, just hoardes of douchebags everywhere.
I'm going to tentatively say that this is true.
I suppose Juggalos count as an incredibly insular "scene," so I will give them one scene. That's what they've influenced.
Vs. The Smiths...
Critics have called them the most important alternative rock band to emerge from the British independent music scene of the 1980s. Q magazine's Simon Goddard argued in 2007 that The Smiths were "the one truly vital voice of the '80s", "the most influential British guitar group of the decade" and the "first indie outsiders to achieve mainstream success on their own terms". The NME named the Smiths the "most influential artist ever" in a 2002 poll, even topping the Beatles... [Note: This was a reader's poll, not an editorial.]
The Smiths had several singles reach the UK top twenty and all four of their studio albums reached the UK top five, including one which topped the charts...
The band's focus on a guitar, bass, and drum sound, and their fusion of 1960s rock and post-punk, were a repudiation of synthesizer-based contemporary dance-pop – the style popular in the early 1980s. Marr's guitar-playing on his Rickenbacker often had a jangly sound... [influencing] later Manchester bands, including The Stone Roses and Oasis.
No contest, Mud

I would never presume to speak for Mud (the same way I would never presume to know anything based on sweeping ethnic generalizations about people who are misguided enough to like the Smiths), but:
D.o.S. wrote:I am very concerned about where every band rates in the world's great encyclopedia of rock music.
Very. Concerned.
In short, Band sucks. Stop compensating for the emotional milestones you missed and relax,no one here gives a fuck.
That said, if you're going to cite Wikipedia (without even a proper citation. Plagiarism!) as an authority, you're probably beyond hope in the first place. Which we already knew, I think

Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:31 am
by goroth
I'm going to go listen to The Art of Shredding and rock the fuck out.
Then I'm going to put on Apex Predator.
And rock the fuck out.
Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:01 am
by Iommic Pope
This is the man with the plan. ^
I've had Slaughtered stuck in my head all day so I need to hear it, exorcise the demon.
Lest by demons be driven...
Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:05 am
by goroth
Dude,slaughtered is soooooo good!
And by demons.
Oof. So much good tough guy metal.
Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:10 am
by Iommic Pope
Tell me about it.
For years I thought camos were ok.
Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:21 am
by goroth
Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:40 am
by D.o.S.
Griptape Wah Pedal never forget.
Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:49 pm
by Dandolin
Every time I see this thread title, I imagine Napoleon Dynamite intoning it, then Kip repeating it, then Pedro.
Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:23 pm
by casecandy
It's okay D.o.S., we can just disagree on The Smiths.
Lots of people like The Smiths. Lots of people don't like The Smiths.
Being a member of either demographic doesn't make you special.
One comment, it's 2015... you do know how Wikipedia works? That there are citations and such?
ANYWAY
I don't get Pantera. I get how influential they were and respect them a lot. But to me it's just not my thing.
Too... macho. Too... rednecky.
Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:53 pm
by D.o.S.
I think that looking to Q or NME for validation of taste and/or opinion, even indirectly via Wikipedia, is indicative of a particularly lame type of person, that's all.
Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:58 pm
by Strange Tales
Shit, why are we validating our taste again? I fucking worship an utaite / it's not like our opinions matter.
Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:00 pm
by D.o.S.
Strange Tales wrote:Shit, why are we validating our taste again? I fucking worship an utaite / it's not like our opinions matter.
Because it is important that we prove to everyone that we are SERIOUS MUSIC LISTENERS who are very aware of THE NATURAL ORDER OF POP CULTURE AND THE MUSIC THEREIN. Or something.
Re: Cowboys From Hell is 25 Today
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:07 pm
by Strange Tales
D.o.S. wrote:Strange Tales wrote:Shit, why are we validating our taste again? I fucking worship an utaite / it's not like our opinions matter.
Because it is important that we prove to everyone that we are SERIOUS MUSIC LISTENERS who are very aware of THE NATURAL ORDER OF POP CULTURE AND THE MUSIC THEREIN. Or something.
I really hate high school me. If I could go back in time I would hit him in the dick and tell him his music taste sucks a shit.