Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the modulator masses

[Dandolin]

OK - waiting for Her to fall asleep

[Chankgeez]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbN3Ng-Elck[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbN3Ng-Elck

[Dandolin]

killer app for me - the ability to set s&h rate to zero then tap that left f/sw for a different rang pitch each tap

wishlist for future versioning: external tap input

[Dowi]

killer app for me - the ability to set s&h rate to zero then tap that left f/sw for a different rang pitch each tap

wishlist for future versioning: external tap input

What would you need it for? Mod rate? Except if using it as tremolo I don't know what could I use it for.

Anyways, killer.

[Dandolin]

external tap? sending gate signals in an effort to get the 0-rate s&h to do rhythmic and/or fuqq'd up things without wearing out the switch/my ankle?

[crochambeau]

wishlist for future versioning: external tap input

What would you need it for?

External control input ports can be highly useful, I would suggest making it map-able to any switch function so you can do stuff like initiate bypass cycling via external pulse (like a variable length one shot pulse triggered from a drum machine, or the ubiquitous 555 oscillator that might be gathering dust in the corner), or playable functions as dandolin described. It's often groovy to free up hands and feet for other things.

Nice to see Pladask dive into the ring mod pit, that things sounds great!

[Dandolin]

def appreciate those ideas, Curtis - could something like what you're describing be implemented in a Monobius? Seems like the "map to any function" thing is really in the province of dsp simply because doing it without a microprocessor could lead to things getting too complicated and big to be worth it with old school wires and switches?

[crochambeau]

def appreciate those ideas, Curtis - could something like what you're describing be implemented in a Monobius? Seems like the "map to any function" thing is really in the province of dsp simply because doing it without a microrpocessor could lead to things getting too complicated and big to be worth it with old school wires and switches?

Yeah, the Monobius is pretty firmly planted in the dumb analog realm, so introducing this sort of feature could be complex.

That said, I have been implementing CMOS switching with a lot of designs and do have some utility boards built that can decouple the signal path aspect from the panel mount toggle/switch. The physical switch is then relegated to providing logic states to actuate to solid state switching tucked elsewhere. The re-mapping I spoke of simply replaces the static on/off logic signal from the physical switch with another source - so strictly speaking we can walk right up to this feature without relying on a microprocessor (but I would guess no one needs an explanation as to why adding a micro would make this sort of thing VASTLY more powerful and "easy" to implement).

So TL;DR yes, I can add remote switching to *some* of the functions (ringmod/fuzz mode comes to mind), though others will be affected by the imposed resistance/lack of reactance by the metal oxide active stages of the switch, and therefore would require testing and experimentation to confirm the potential. I don't consider that a high priority for the Monobius, because I'm still working on the Polybius and that topology will be much more tolerant of external controls.

Ugh, I'm spiraling out again, so TL;DR some aspects of the Monobius can be affected remotely, but in doing so there will need to be "dumb" ports that add to clutter and/or an additional function switch that "maps" to whichever path wants to be wiggled. Might also be noisy switching with such a brute force method (making audio rate switching problematic - that's better served with the aforementioned microprocessor)

[Dandolin]

def appreciate those ideas, Curtis - could something like what you're describing be implemented in a Monobius? Seems like the "map to any function" thing is really in the province of dsp simply because doing it without a microrpocessor could lead to things getting too complicated and big to be worth it with old school wires and switches?

Yeah, the Monobius is pretty firmly planted in the dumb analog realm, so introducing this sort of feature could be complex.

That said, I have been implementing CMOS switching with a lot of designs and do have some utility boards built that can decouple the signal path aspect from the panel mount toggle/switch. The physical switch is then relegated to providing logic states to actuate to solid state switching tucked elsewhere. The re-mapping I spoke of simply replaces the static on/off logic signal from the physical switch with another source - so strictly speaking we can walk right up to this feature without relying on a microprocessor (but I would guess no one needs an explanation as to why adding a micro would make this sort of thing VASTLY more powerful and "easy" to implement).

So TL;DR yes, I can add remote switching to *some* of the functions (ringmod/fuzz mode comes to mind), though others will be affected by the imposed resistance/lack of reactance by the metal oxide active stages of the switch, and therefore would require testing and experimentation to confirm the potential. I don't consider that a high priority for the Monobius, because I'm still working on the Polybius and that topology will be much more tolerant of external controls.

Ugh, I'm spiraling out again, so TL;DR some aspects of the Monobius can be affected remotely, but in doing so there will need to be "dumb" ports that add to clutter and/or an additional function switch that "maps" to whichever path wants to be wiggled. Might also be noisy switching with such a brute force method (making audio rate switching problematic - that's better served with the aforementioned microprocessor)

i suspected as much, but thanks for taking the time to run that rabbit down
i guess i'll never stop dreaming of ways to mate the shear sonic force that the analog approach affords, especially with ring modulation, to the tricksier use cases that are more easily attainable with dsp.... not that Feber doesn't sound great - it just doesn't swing as big a pair as Monobius...and it's not as if Monobius doesn't have some pretty great tricks up it's sleeve. Definitely room for both in the balanced mod pedal fold

[crochambeau]

Definitely room for both in the balanced mod pedal fold

Agreed!

[Dowi]

external tap? sending gate signals in an effort to get the 0-rate s&h to do rhythmic and/or fuqq'd up things without wearing out the switch/my ankle?

wishlist for future versioning: external tap input

What would you need it for?

External control input ports can be highly useful, I would suggest making it map-able to any switch function so you can do stuff like initiate bypass cycling via external pulse (like a variable length one shot pulse triggered from a drum machine, or the ubiquitous 555 oscillator that might be gathering dust in the corner), or playable functions as dandolin described. It's often groovy to free up hands and feet for other things.

Nice to see Pladask dive into the ring mod pit, that things sounds great!

Dumb me, I just thought of it as a tap tempo switch. never messed with cv but I see your point

[Chankgeez]

Demos still soundin' very nice to me:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfdw39CPMdw[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfdw39CPMdw

[crochambeau]

So, of late I have been experimenting with modulation schemes. In one corner there is a discrete transistor four quadrant multiplier (Gilbert Cell), and in another I had a go at employing "super diodes" (which are opamp compensated diodes to eliminate the forward voltage drop) in an otherwise conventional transformer coupled diode ring.

In both instances I have observed an almost "half modulated" performance, in which I can more or less suppress the carrier signal while the primary input is silent, but the primary input is not suppressed at the lack of the carrier. It's sonically pleasing, but shies away from deep modulation.

[Chankgeez]

Wonderin' what it'd sound like with this entire track run through it:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqqBs6kkzHE[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqqBs6kkzHE

[Chankgeez]

Also, Pepe's Gonkulator demo:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGw2Y7f3EgY[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGw2Y7f3EgY