Old Funky Reverbs (prob just tanks?)

[popvulture]

This reminds me I have an old Pioneer hifi verb that I need to get fixed. Looks awesome, probably sounds awesomely shitty.

Also super weird to me that people used to run their stereos through spring reverb. Weed? Weed.

[crochambeau]

Also super weird to me that people used to run their stereos through spring reverb. Weed? Weed.

I once had a console stereo that had reverb built in. I think a lot of the motivation behind it was due to the onset of stereo sound. A lot of existing material was still monophonic, and couldn't hold a candle to the whiz-bang reaction of TWO speaker sources, so in order to scare away the comparative boredom they drenched shit in reverb which was sent to one speaker. Goes hand in hand with the martini lunch and DDT.

It's funny, I wound up with another Sansui (I sold the one I used to own a decade or so ago) the other day. Stereo in and out, but there's just one reverb tank, so it's kind of a stereo to mono converter.



Here's a detail shot of the tank. Separate inputs, but just the one output.



Short springs result in a pretty pronounced boing/drip.

[popvulture]

That's pretty much exactly what mine looks like, horsey "visualizer" and all. Pretty great

Ok I'm getting that thing fixed asap.

[JonnyAngle]

i have a pioneer 202 that I've got hooked up to my console stereo. a hint of reverb sounds good on organ or piano solo music. otherwise it's strictly aesthetics..

[codetocontra]

Short springs result in a pretty pronounced boing/drip.

Wait, is that the key? If I were to replace a tank with the right impedance in my Twin could I achieve drip?!?

[JonnyAngle]

Short springs result in a pretty pronounced boing/drip.

Wait, is that the key? If I were to replace a tank with the right impedance in my Twin could I achieve drip?!?

You can stretch the springs slightly so they’re looser

[popvulture]

Wait so—what's wrong with your Twin's reverb, exactly? And how old is it? Reissue or older?

Just kinda curious, since the reverb on my Twin is pretty much the best I've ever heard, or at least of the spring variety. Come to think of it, I can't really remember playing a bad one, but I haven't checked out any of the recent reissues, probably more like a mid 00s would be the latest.

Pan length is a big factor, and of course 2 vs 3 springs, etc. I think 2 is drippier? And yes, looser will give you more of that kinda spankier sound, I believe.

[crochambeau]

Short springs result in a pretty pronounced boing/drip.

Wait, is that the key? If I were to replace a tank with the right impedance in my Twin could I achieve drip?!?

I may be conflating boing and drip a little, though depending on your taste they may be interchangeable. I think the key to drip is driving the spring hard, these little short springs can sort of emulate it with the boing but the result isn't as well bodied.



A typical spring pan has multiple springs; they don't each vibrate in exactly the same manner, so you wind up with a more diffused and lush result. The thing is, the diffusion aspect of multiple springs is going to put mechanical damping on the tip of the wave in favor of attempting to emulate realistic reverb, at least at lower levels.



The straight shot spring I posted earlier is unencumbered by all that, but it sounds like like a spring as opposed to a lush space. Changing type of tank might get you closer, but there are always trade-offs.

Your Twin is not *driving* the reverb hard. In the stock Twin the reverb tank is driven by a 12AT7 (preamp tube which trades gain for a little more current capability) driving a little output transformer *at all times*. When you turn up the reverb knob you're just turning up the volume of the recovery amplifier listening to the ass end of the tank which has been doing the shimmy its entire existence. To get the drip you find on an outboard reverb with a "complex" tank you need the volume control (dwell) feeding a properly proportioned amplifier driving the tank.

Within the low power confines of the Twin you might like the sound of a single spring, if you can find one. I saw a thread in which someone was looking for more boing and short of cutting a spring out of something like a 1AB2B1B no one was coming up with any ideas short of scouring the used market. Old Vox amps did it with a single spring.

If I was on a desert island with nothing but a Twin and a bunch of parts, I might try ousting the 12AT7 circuit for a 6BQ5 output for more drive. I'd expect to want to change the output transformer (I think the stock impedance is 25K on the primary side in support of the low current 12AT7, and I'd probably want to shorten that to 5K or so and let the tube work a little). Maybe a concentric control on the panel to allow adjusting the dwell and mix (the latter being your current reverb "level"). You'll have to forgive me, I got a little carried away there..

..anyway, I think your tank impedance is 8 ohms on the input and 2250 on the output. Changing input values would probably result in moving away from your goal, changing the configuration or type of tank might get you closer. You'll be hard pressed to beat a 6G15 in the drip department without major surgery.

[codetocontra]

Wait so—what's wrong with your Twin's reverb, exactly? And how old is it? Reissue or older?

Just kinda curious, since the reverb on my Twin is pretty much the best I've ever heard, or at least of the spring variety. Come to think of it, I can't really remember playing a bad one, but I haven't checked out any of the recent reissues, probably more like a mid 00s would be the latest.

Pan length is a big factor, and of course 2 vs 3 springs, etc. I think 2 is drippier? And yes, looser will give you more of that kinda spankier sound, I believe.

Missed this, sorry. There is nothing "wrong" with my Twin's reverb on it's own, just doesn't do the surfy drip sound at all.

My Twin is from 1974. Had it for like 5 years, sort of a bastard inside with repairs over the year. The old reverb tank looked the part but the specs were way off and it sounded terrible, obviously pieced together to sell it. Bought a replacement MOD tank with 3 springs and the correct impedance. So now the reverb works but the large magnets from the replacement speakers cause the springs to continue to vibrate and feedback if set higher than 4, works okay up to 10 if the tank is placed on the floor outside of the magnetic grasp. Obviously 3 springs isn't OEM but I wanted to give the lushness a try. Sort of gave up spending more money on the Twin after a while, not loving the EQ of the amp and had it listed for sale for the last few months, but more recently started to just accept it for what it is. So maybe I will experiment more with different tubes and a 2 spring tank. Might give the springs a good stretch. Maybe I will take a spring out of the current tank and stretch the other two, I don't think that would harm anything.

[codetocontra]

Your Twin is not *driving* the reverb hard...
To get the drip you find on an outboard reverb with a "complex" tank you need the volume control (dwell) feeding a properly proportioned amplifier driving the tank...
Within the low power confines of the Twin you might like the sound of a single spring, if you can find one...
If I was on a desert island with nothing but a Twin and a bunch of parts, I might try ousting the 12AT7 circuit for a 6BQ5 output for more drive...
I think your tank impedance is 8 ohms on the input and 2250 on the output. Changing input values would probably result in moving away from your goal, changing the configuration or type of tank might get you closer...
You'll be hard pressed to beat a 6G15 in the drip department without major surgery...

Good info, thanks! You initially got me wondering if I should give a shorter tank a try, might help with the magnetic issue too if i can position it away from the lower speaker. You shot down my idea of changing the impedance of the tank to get it to be driven hard. Totally in to trying different tubes in all positions anyway (I really dislike JJ EC83s anyway). Have some more mod ideas to hand over to my tech anyway. This amp is already a bastard so I might as well make it my own.

[crochambeau]

Bought a replacement MOD tank with 3 springs and the correct impedance. So now the reverb works but the large magnets from the replacement speakers cause the springs to continue to vibrate and feedback if set higher than 4, works okay up to 10 if the tank is placed on the floor outside of the magnetic grasp.

I'd put my chips on vibration, not magnetic field. How is the tank mounted in the amplifier? Do you have the thick pleather envelope for it? (https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/r ... ype%3DBags) Might be worth a shot to experiment with wrapping the tank in a shirt or something.

[codetocontra]

Bought a replacement MOD tank with 3 springs and the correct impedance. So now the reverb works but the large magnets from the replacement speakers cause the springs to continue to vibrate and feedback if set higher than 4, works okay up to 10 if the tank is placed on the floor outside of the magnetic grasp.

I'd put my chips on vibration, not magnetic field. How is the tank mounted in the amplifier? Do you have the thick pleather envelope for it? (https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/r ... ype%3DBags) Might be worth a shot to experiment with wrapping the tank in a shirt or something.

Yes, I had a bag originally, lightly screwed down at the ends when I got it. Without being secured it would end up stuck to the large Eminence speaker magnets. Added foam to the underside of the tank and moved it around carefully in the bottom to find some areas were much worse in relation to the magnetic field. Even holding the tank off the bottom will result in continuous spring excitation from the magnets. So I am fighting the magnetism more than just the common vibration issues. Zero problem outside of the amp.

Now I hesitate about moving forward with more experiments. New reverb tank, speakers, tubes, and a few more mods... Sounds a bit more reasonable to just find another amp instead of making the Twin into something it isn't. I don't know how much money I want to keep dumping into it.

[JonnyAngle]

Bought a replacement MOD tank with 3 springs and the correct impedance. So now the reverb works but the large magnets from the replacement speakers cause the springs to continue to vibrate and feedback if set higher than 4, works okay up to 10 if the tank is placed on the floor outside of the magnetic grasp.

I'd put my chips on vibration, not magnetic field. How is the tank mounted in the amplifier? Do you have the thick pleather envelope for it? (https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/r ... ype%3DBags) Might be worth a shot to experiment with wrapping the tank in a shirt or something.

Yes, I had a bag originally, lightly screwed down at the ends when I got it. Without being secured it would end up stuck to the large Eminence speaker magnets. Added foam to the underside of the tank and moved it around carefully in the bottom to find some areas were much worse in relation to the magnetic field. Even holding the tank off the bottom will result in continuous spring excitation from the magnets. So I am fighting the magnetism more than just the common vibration issues. Zero problem outside of the amp.

Now I hesitate about moving forward with more experiments. New reverb tank, speakers, tubes, and a few more mods... Sounds a bit more reasonable to just find another amp instead of making the Twin into something it isn't. I don't know how much money I want to keep dumping into it.

Can you just screw the tank to the back of the amp?

[codetocontra]

If it was a different tank that allowed that orientation it would work.

[calfzilla]

So, this isn't old, it's new, but I think it looks like a cool idea. price is nice as well.

https://anasounds.com/element-spring-reverb/