Onwards & Upwards - How to make a living off creative work?

[baremountain]

So for those of you who don't know I currently work full-time as a research technician in a neuroscience lab - I went to college for Biochemistry, got denied from PhD programs because my research interests were vague, and took the first job I was offered once I graduated. It started off great: I spent the first 2.25 years with fairly flexible hours (scheduled 7A-3P daily), regularly showing up late/leaving early - so long as my work got done, my boss didn't care. My heart has never quite been in the work we do, but it's been alright because I make enough money to live nicely, if I had a show or went to see a concert I could always show up late the next day with no repercussions, & insurance is pretty cool. Fast forward to a few weeks ago, when the FLSA act went in to effect (Fair Labor Standards Act - a worker's protection bill to ensure proper overtime pay is issued or something? idfk, all I know is it fucked my shit up). This is my third week of having to clock in and out, rather than report my own fictional time, and it's been pretty miserable compared to my old setup. No pay bump or anything, just a much more blindly strict requirement that doesn't play well with my non-work lifestyle. Now working isn't important, all that's important is actually being here for 8 hours a day.

I kinda wanted out before, but now I'm desperately searching for a way out. Part of me feels pretty shitty about not wanting to be required to do the same shit as almost everyone else (boo-hoo, poor me, right?), but at the same time I think being a wage-slave just because other people do it is a pretty shitty excuse for a life, and anyone who can find a way out of working a job their heart isn't in should absolutely do so. That said, I've made a bit of scratch here and there this past year by taking on various merchandising projects (screen printing t-shirts, making buttons, and dubbing cassette tapes) for local artists - I keep my prices cheap because I'm first & foremost here to help my friends/be an ally to the small bands in our scene, so I don't make a killing at it or anything, but it's still some money. I've also spent a few days recently recording some friends' bands in my studio, working as an engineer and producer for them. I had never done anything like that before, but I have discovered that I absolutely love production & I honestly think it's something I've got a knack for (or at least certainly the gear for).

All these things considered, I've been plotting ways out of the worker mill & towards something more fulfilling - heck even working a shittier (ie less frilly) part-time job on the side would be cool if I could spend more of my time working on projects that satisfy me on a personal level. I've reached out to about a dozen local artists whose work I enjoy & offered them all a free day at my home-studio wherein we'll work to make one really bitchin' song & I'll engineer/produce for them. I'm offering it for free in hopes that, if it goes well, they'll consider me for their next large recording project, recommend me to their friends, or consider my services when they need merch in the future. Also I'll be boosting up my production portfolio by working with some truly incredible acts. I also reached out to a guy who runs John Congelton's studio here in Dallas and offered to be a cable jockey/intern/apprentice any time he has a session so I can learn more about using pro gear. I've also been called in to that studio to do some saxophone session work, and made sure to let him know I'm always down - last time I was paid in weed which was totally hella
My goal is to just get more experience, get my name out there, and hopefully start taking days off work to record bands. I wanna keep my prices low (I was thinking charging $75 for a single full day [no time limit] and better pricing if you work with me for multiple days in a row) because ultimately I care a whole lot less about money once I'm certain that I have a roof, my car, music, and I can help my friends/my scene. I'm also gonna get back into the house show racket, but that's never been a money maker - we give all our revenue from the door to the artists. I have, however, discovered that people are down to spend money on merch at a DIY show, so making shirts before shows has always earned me a nice chunk of scratch. At the last show I threw at our old house, I sold something like 60 shirts at $10 apiece & some other miscellany and walked out with like $700.

Idk, I'm trying to get the ball rolling & wanted to share this with y'all for a few reasons:
- I know that at least some of you have to have interesting/creatively fulfilling jobs related do the things you love, so I'm wondering if you could share what kind of stuff y'all do as a way to pay the bills without leaving the umbrella of music/creative work, what tips you might have for a 24-year-old looking to quit wasting his time at a job he doesn't enjoy and do something meaningful, or even some words of encouragement.
- I'm also specifically curious if any of you have had any success in achieving any modicum of financial independence through discounted services/pay what you want/pay what you can type business. Is the DIY lifestyle sustainable?
- Please consider this a formal offer that if any of you folks ever make a trip to Dallas, I'd be happy to record you/your band, put you up, cook you dinner, host a show for you, or what have you for free because those are things that make my life better. Also please consider me if you ever need some merch makin' - I'll ship as well :^)

[JonnyAngle]

I'm definitely hitting you up for shirts.

As far as the work thing goes, it's hard for me to offer any relevant advice without knowing what your liabilities are to financial institutions, i.e. student loans, cc debt, car payments, rent, et cetera.

Ironically, that's why I could never make it doing what you want to do... I over think everything!

[baremountain]

I'm definitely hitting you up for shirts.

As far as the work thing goes, it's hard for me to offer any relevant advice without knowing what your liabilities are to financial institutions, i.e. student loans, cc debt, car payments, rent, et cetera.

Ironically, that's why I could never make it doing what you want to do... I over think everything!

Right on!!
And oh yeah, I should probably include that info - I'd say before food, my basic monthly payments total to about $600 for rent, utilities, my dog's vet bills, and student loan payments. I'm hoping to knock out my Paypal cc debt before I actually fully make the transition, which probably won't be for a while, until I get some money saved up.
Ideally I'd be making a comparable amount of money to what I make currently - I'd aim for about $1,500/mo.. My roommate and I did some basic math and it'd be something like 10 1-day recording sessions and 350 t-shirts a month to make that, which isn't terrible - probably about 15 days of actual work a month (of course give or take, based on demand, etc). If I could get a part time gig earning ~$200 a week, those numbers get cut in half, so that seems a lot more reasonable.

[JonnyAngle]

iwas in a band with a guy who didn't have a job. His full time job was playing in bands and gigging 3-4 nights a week. He seemed to turn out just fine.

[DRodriguez]

I'll give you a proper write up when I get home from work, but first and foremost don't work for free or cheap. Do that if you want to do it for fun; if you are doing it for a living, charge everytime. If you are doing a favor, print them an invoice with the full price and include their friends and family discount as an item in it.

One of the weirdest things to fully comprehend is that people will assume you are worse or value your work less if you charge less. The more you charge, the references and word of mouth jobs you will get will be more willing to pay your fee.

Also go to the freelancers union and make a standard contract from their template that you can easily edit to whatever job you're doing.

[D.o.S.]

First thing's first: I think you have to narrow down what an "interesting/creatively fulfilling job" means to you. For example: Steve Albini recorded a Bush record, and I'm sure he's spent thousands of hours recording bands he doesn't particularly enjoy listening to.

Second thing's second: I think you have to reconsider the freedom that a non-creative job allows you, and how restrictive 'creative' jobs can be. The Albini example is one, there's another good one in this history of Khanate that talks in passing about Dubine's video editing day job:
http://clrvynt.com/khanate-feature/?tra ... witter_top

Obviously you've thought about it on one end, but it's important to think about it in another way, too: All (or 4/5ths) the dudes in Neurosis have day jobs, and Neurosis are a massive fucking band as far as the underground goes.

Don't work for free if you're serious about pursuing it. Where's that comic where the guy tries to pay for something in exposure?

When I started my current gig I wanted to have a full time job working with words all day, but I'd hardly say my job is "creatively fulfilling" -- certainly not as much as when I was making my living as a freelance writer. On the other hand, it is a lot of fun, I work with some really rad people, I get to shape the face of a team of writers, and I can afford to buy some cool gear and visit some cool places, none of which was necessarily the case when I was freelancing.

[aens_wife]

First thing's first: I think you have to narrow down what an "interesting/creatively fulfilling job" means to you. For example: Steve Albini recorded a Bush record, and I'm sure he's spent thousands of hours recording bands he doesn't particularly enjoy listening to.

Second thing's second: I think you have to reconsider the freedom that a non-creative job allows you, and how restrictive 'creative' jobs can be. The Albini example is one, there's another good one in this history of Khanate that talks in passing about Dubine's video editing day job:
http://clrvynt.com/khanate-feature/?tra ... witter_top

these are both excellent points. I have a cool job, but it is easy to gloss over the piles of shit you have to deal with when you are self-employed. You are the only one, so you get all the good and bad parts of running a company. Bookkeeping, emails, scheduling, budgeting (even when there is nothing to budget with). You get the good stuff too, but it is really easy to romanticize working for yourself. The reality is that it isn't nearly as sexy as people assume when they start out.

I don't mean to shit on your dreams (and I wouldn't change my situation for anything) but selling 350 shirts and 10 full recording days is a LOT to start with. I would highly recommend starting your side hustle while working and push hard at it. Having two jobs sucks a lot, but you'll have a better track record and some data to work with if/when you choose to jump to fully self-employed.

And def don't under-charge. If you don't think you know enough to charge more, then maybe you aren't ready to rely on it for income.

[crochambeau]

I was cut from a straight job I had worked for close to ten years a year and a half ago, turned around and dove into RMA as my sole source of income (though I share household expenses with my wife, which has made this all possible).

Here are some random/not well thought out aspects of my experience so far, mixed with a little background for reference. I apologize it's going to be a mess of a structure, but I have work to do and the clock is ticking:

1) I've been working on/building electronics for over 20 years at this point, and on some fronts/communities have been establishing myself as an identity for over 10 years.
2) 12-14 hour days are commonplace now, I usually work every single day; a day off fills me with anxiety because...
3) we barely make cost of living, December was a scramble race to get funds in the bank before the rent check hit. Fulfilment on that front took me six days of riding a hot check.
4) it's easy to fall into an allocation trap, and given my business I absolutely must prioritize having a shipping fund on hand to fulfil customer order. Cost of living versus manufacturing expenses are a juggle - it can get dicey.
5) doing this month after month is a huge hit to morale, but it has also been educational. (My main issue is that I kill LOTS of time in R&D, since I'm not aping established norms. In my case there is a safety net in that we've inherited a property so the end to the rent cycle is down the road; otherwise I would probably have already snapped and down shifted into wage slavery for a spell - you know, to rest.)
6) my experience is neither unique or common. I offered the above as my clumsy way to point out that you will be racing yourself - identifying your weaknesses and strengths will be paramount to success. Personally, I have identified two major weaknesses in my methodology/character, and knowing that I have tactics/contingency plans in place. Having a support network is helpful, but ultimately it will come down to you.
7) jumping in has been the only way in my case, as without a sense of urgency I would probably revert to casual family man mode and just work out circuits for my personal use.

YMMV, though I say grab life and live it. It is very liberating to work outside the confinement of a meat-mill or mind-garden or whatever the fuck process is sucking the joy of living out of you. Expect terror though, we are, in fact, racing through space on the face of a giant rock. Attaining higher levels of independence seems to amplify that sense.

[baremountain]

First thing's first: I think you have to narrow down what an "interesting/creatively fulfilling job" means to you. For example: Steve Albini recorded a Bush record, and I'm sure he's spent thousands of hours recording bands he doesn't particularly enjoy listening to.

Second thing's second: I think you have to reconsider the freedom that a non-creative job allows you, and how restrictive 'creative' jobs can be. The Albini example is one, there's another good one in this history of Khanate that talks in passing about Dubine's video editing day job:
http://clrvynt.com/khanate-feature/?tra ... witter_top

these are both excellent points. I have a cool job, but it is easy to gloss over the piles of shit you have to deal with when you are self-employed. You are the only one, so you get all the good and bad parts of running a company. Bookkeeping, emails, scheduling, budgeting (even when there is nothing to budget with). You get the good stuff too, but it is really easy to romanticize working for yourself. The reality is that it isn't nearly as sexy as people assume when they start out.

I don't mean to shit on your dreams (and I wouldn't change my situation for anything) but selling 350 shirts and 10 full recording days is a LOT to start with. I would highly recommend starting your side hustle while working and push hard at it. Having two jobs sucks a lot, but you'll have a better track record and some data to work with if/when you choose to jump to fully self-employed.

And def don't under-charge. If you don't think you know enough to charge more, then maybe you aren't ready to rely on it for income.

Oh yeah, these are great points. I probably should have clarified, I am just now working on inching towards the transition - I believe I have something worth sharing/charging for w/r/t/ my recording services, but I'd rather hone my skills & really make sure my ducks are in a row before I start charging people. I'm a big proponent of communal spaces/intentional communities/DIY ethics, and I think using other people with diverse musical stylings as my studio guinea pigs is a great opportunity to make sure that I don't charge someone only to have them come in & not be able to do something because I lacked the expertise if that makes sense? I also have the luxury of taking paid time off when I do these initial 5-10 recording sessions on the free, so I'm still being paid - just subsidizing it via the workmill.
With the DIY/community thing in mind, I anticipate I'd have different price brackets for friends - what I'm charging right now for my services is definitely the "I get my primary income elsewhere" arrangement, and if that changes, the prices definitely would have to change, especially when I get to the point that I'm dealing with strangers. Right now I definitely feel like I'm more in the do-it-for-fun category because there are things I have left to learn, and I just need to get myself more experience.

I'm in a pretty great position currently where I have 3 roommates who help split the cost of living & a pretty strong/wide network of friends who will make sure I don't go hungry. Even considering that, I'm also not looking to dive straight in right away. Those numbers I listed are just the 'quick-math minimum' to maintain my current income (the ideal). However, at the end of the day I'm down to make less money if I'm happier with what I do and still can afford to eat, ya know? Inching towards the dream by making initial connections & taking more and more work on slowly seems to be a pretty solid plan. For instance, I was talking to the owner of a local vegan Mexican bakery/restaurant that I've been frequenting since I moved to the neighborhood - they've recently gotten more business and taken on more staff, etc, and in passing I mentioned that if they ever need shirts that he can hit me up, and he told me he actually needed them pretty soon, so I'm taking that on as my first non-band shirt project.

But I appreciate all the reality ya'll are bringing up. I'm by no means delusional - I've spent enough time scratching my head trying to figure out how to make my current setup work for my needs, sending gear in to get repaired, accepting that something is just fucking broken and I've gotta deal, or trying to take something on only to realize I lack some minute, yet essential, piece to know that it's not gonna be fun/easy always. But ya know, I'd rather be miserable under my own direction that miserable under someone else's. I've had a bit of experience doing all the boring business stuff being a supplemental instructor/Radio DJ/student org vice president/Orientation Leader at my university too, so that stuff doesn't scare me too bad.

It's gonna be a long journey, and I don't anticipate it happening overnight, but these are all useful things to hear.

[D.o.S.]

You might want to seriosuly think about the possibility that you may not be able to reconcile A (emphasis mine):

However, at the end of the day I'm down to make less money if I'm happier with what I do and still can afford to eat, ya know?

With B:

I'm a big proponent of communal spaces/intentional communities/DIY ethics, and I think using other people with diverse musical stylings as my studio guinea pigs is a great opportunity to make sure that I don't charge someone only to have them come in & not be able to do something because I lacked the expertise... With the DIY/community thing in mind, I anticipate I'd have different price brackets for friends - what I'm charging right now for my services is definitely the "I get my primary income elsewhere" arrangement, and if that changes, the prices definitely would have to change, especially when I get to the point that I'm dealing with strangers

[Disarm D'arcy]

I've considered a career in sound engineering. I was good at it. But went on to do something else (well studying law) and I've never regretted that decision. Making music gets to remain my hobby, my true passion, while my career will be a mean to a cool private life (including my hobby) while still being intellectually engaging and with good prospects in terms of independence in the workplace.

Keep that in mind. With this change of path, your passion will become a career. Are you sure this is what you want?

[odontophobia]

it seems like a dicey time to be losing insurance in this fine nation of ours.

[jrfox92]

these are both excellent points. I have a cool job, but it is easy to gloss over the piles of shit you have to deal with when you are self-employed. You are the only one, so you get all the good and bad parts of running a company. Bookkeeping, emails, scheduling, budgeting (even when there is nothing to budget with). You get the good stuff too, but it is really easy to romanticize working for yourself. The reality is that it isn't nearly as sexy as people assume when they start out.

This.
Being self-employed is tedious as fuck, and you're likely to work a whole lot more than you would with a regular day job.
Even though I have the freedom to screw around all day if I really want, I've spent many days working well into the night just to make ends meet.
That's not to say you shouldn't do it, but you should have a good idea of what you want to do, how you're going to do it, and what is necessary to continue doing it.

[comesect2.0]

same boat...i just moved to frisco lived in dallas long time...been taking care of my daughter at my moms cuz her mom went crazy....broke, selling gear.. with options of low pay jobs all around me and no real career type chances anymore...my boat has sailed and its hard to feel good about a future, ...lots of luck baremountain..

[jrfox92]

i just moved to frisco

My condolences.

with options of low pay jobs all around me and no real career type chances anymore...my boat has sailed and its hard to feel good about a future,

What field are you in? I know that being in anything IT practically guarantees you'll have a job up there.