phil anselmo being an ass beyond an ass in an ass

[waltdogg]

Everyone's talking about the same thing but no one is listening. This was a great thread.

[daseb]

some of us did



Phil TOTALLY cared what a teenage hardcore kid from australia thought in a piece he wrote for some shitty zine, trust me.

[daseb]

I dunno about 'standing up' cuz I was just a loudmouth punk kid, but it's the reason I've always disliked Pantera, and I really thought it had been known for any one remotely involved in heavy music for a long, long time. I actually tried to find the first time I read something about it the other night, but I threw out all my old zines a long time ago. It would have been like 1993 or 94 I think. He chucked up a roman salute and dedicated a song to the KKK at their melbourne show in 2000-ish. Friend of mine who went was bummed and the rest of us were just like 'dude you went to a fucking Pantera show of course that shit happened'.

Like I'm in no way excusing it or apologizing for it (wtf?). I'm just genuinely surprised that people didn't realise Phil was like that. Is it because people got into them long after Dimebag died? Or is it because people are pissed off because they're finally having to get off the fence on something? Or is it just that they genuinely didn't know? Honestly to me it's like someone being 'oh man this Varg guy? Had you heard this? Fuck'.

There's also been plenty of people including many of my friends who are like 'I know he's a dick, I don't care I like the music' which is totally fine too.

[decomposing]

I dunno about 'standing up' cuz I was just a loudmouth punk kid, but it's the reason I've always disliked Pantera, and I really thought it had been known for any one remotely involved in heavy music for a long, long time. I actually tried to find the first time I read something about it the other night, but I threw out all my old zines a long time ago. It would have been like 1993 or 94 I think. He chucked up a roman salute and dedicated a song to the KKK at their melbourne show in 2000-ish. Friend of mine who went was bummed and the rest of us were just like 'dude you went to a fucking Pantera show of course that shit happened'.

Like I'm in no way excusing it or apologizing for it (wtf?). I'm just genuinely surprised that people didn't realise Phil was like that. Is it because people got into them long after Dimebag died? Or is it because people are pissed off because they're finally having to get off the fence on something? Or is it just that they genuinely didn't know? Honestly to me it's like someone being 'oh man this Varg guy? Had you heard this? Fuck'.

There's also been plenty of people including many of my friends who are like 'I know he's a dick, I don't care I like the music' which is totally fine too.

ok foreal last one
I guess because I've never seen pantera live and don't hang with a bunch of metalheads anymore
seen down a few times and nothing like this ever went down
he just talked about smoking weed all day and writing lyrics
and how he thanked us for letting him do it because it was awesome
and don't really search out shit I don't want to see
but have listened to pantera probably since 1997?
hearing by demons by driven in a friend's car hit me
I remember requesting This Love at RockNBowl back in the day when I was growing up
had a lot of rage in me growing up and hearing their music was like woah
rage harnessed to be something much more
anyways
yeah, just a real bitter pill to see that exact thing
I can excuse a lot to drugs and alcohol because of what I've seen
not to say it's ok, but I get it
totally different
I used to have empathy for him, now just total disgust
still think pepper is the southern gentleman you hope to exist
Z you guys

[kaeth]

I haven't really bothered with Pantera in more than a decade, but it's still possible for shitty people to make good art. If you were to thoroughly audit every musician, artist, writer that you enjoy, you'd probably find some shitty opinions in the vast majority of them. HP Lovecraft was a racist. William Burroughs fucked young boys. I wish that weren't the case, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying their writing (or at least the aspects of it that don't involve those things). I don't think art has to be intrinsically tied to it's maker. Once it's out there, it stands on it's own, and it's open to interpretation.

To me, it comes down to whether the art itself exists for the purpose of promoting shitty ideals like racism, or is it something separate and the artist just happened to let their archaic personal views bleed into it's presentation. I don't recall Pantera's lyrics being overtly racist. I don't think whether Pantera is any good or not hinges on Phil being a nice guy. I don't want to listen to a racist band, but I MIGHT listen to a band of racists if they make a good album about something else, and leave their shitty worldview at the door.

As far as the Confederate flag thing goes, symbols are just symbols, and their meaning is fluid. Symbols can be re-purposed at will, but that is NOT what Pantera has done. If you throw swastikas around in the context of Eastern mysticism or whatever, then that's cool with me. If you wear a red and black one on an armband, you're making it pretty clear that you're using it to promote racism. It's all about context, and when Pantera uses the Confederate flag, they're not changing the context at all. It's still about Southern pride, and Southern pride is at the very least complicit towards racism.

[kaeth]

People are complex. Everyone has good things about them, and bad. I don't think we should write people off entirely because we've seen their bad side. Keep calling him on his bullshit, but don't stop praising him for his art (if you like it), and if we're lucky, he'll smarten up, drop the racist attitude, and go back to making some good tunes.

[lost in music]

I don't know enough Pantera to tell if this thread title is a reference to anything, but I've had Metallica's Disposable Heroes in my head with the lyrics:

if I say/you will die/you must die/ass in an ass

[lost in music]

I think it's actually you coward // you servant // you ass man // ass in an ass

[decomposing]

it's exposing at least the bigger issues at hand
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/slipknots-corey-taylor-talks-combating-racism-in-metal-20160210

[decomposing]

I haven't really bothered with Pantera in more than a decade, but it's still possible for shitty people to make good art. If you were to thoroughly audit every musician, artist, writer that you enjoy, you'd probably find some shitty opinions in the vast majority of them. HP Lovecraft was a racist. William Burroughs fucked young boys. I wish that weren't the case, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying their writing (or at least the aspects of it that don't involve those things). I don't think art has to be intrinsically tied to it's maker. Once it's out there, it stands on it's own, and it's open to interpretation.

To me, it comes down to whether the art itself exists for the purpose of promoting shitty ideals like racism, or is it something separate and the artist just happened to let their archaic personal views bleed into it's presentation. I don't recall Pantera's lyrics being overtly racist. I don't think whether Pantera is any good or not hinges on Phil being a nice guy. I don't want to listen to a racist band, but I MIGHT listen to a band of racists if they make a good album about something else, and leave their shitty worldview at the door.

As far as the Confederate flag thing goes, symbols are just symbols, and their meaning is fluid. Symbols can be re-purposed at will, but that is NOT what Pantera has done. If you throw swastikas around in the context of Eastern mysticism or whatever, then that's cool with me. If you wear a red and black one on an armband, you're making it pretty clear that you're using it to promote racism. It's all about context, and when Pantera uses the Confederate flag, they're not changing the context at all. It's still about Southern pride, and Southern pride is at the very least complicit towards racism.

People are complex. Everyone has good things about them, and bad. I don't think we should write people off entirely because we've seen their bad side. Keep calling him on his bullshit, but don't stop praising him for his art (if you like it), and if we're lucky, he'll smarten up, drop the racist attitude, and go back to making some good tunes.

verywellsaid

[D.o.S.]

While I don't think dude would be able to say anything that would be able to absolve him of this, "I'm repulsed by my own actions, and the self-loathing I'm going through right now is justified by the hurt I've caused," is a sentiment that I think most of us can relate to, and it's a good reflection of where most of us think he should be leaning, right now?

Saw that in a rolling stone article.

[daseb]

A person having to change how they feel to placate fans of their music sits wrongly with me for some reason. Isn't it enough to just like the records and their horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE guitar tone and just go 'yeah that guy sucks?'

I mean it would be nice if there were no more racists in the world (I mean come on I'm one of the most bleeding heart PC whatever people on here) but...fuck I dunno.

[pelliott]

A person having to change how they feel to placate fans of their music sits wrongly with me for some reason. Isn't it enough to just like the records and their horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE guitar tone and just go 'yeah that guy sucks?'

I mean it would be nice if there were no more racists in the world (I mean come on I'm one of the most bleeding heart PC whatever people on here) but...fuck I dunno.

Well, maybe it's not changing JUST to placate people. It's entirely likely that someone is only pretending to change or issuing a sappy non-apology (bad) or genuinely showing remorse, realizing the error of his ways, learning, and changing because he realizes his stunted worldview was dead wrong (good, and way way mondo less likely in the case of racism)

It's not to appease anyone but yourself. When there's that much universal backlash against you from people who admired you, it shouldn't be "I need to watch how I act in front of them so they don't get upset," the reaction should be somewhere along the lines of "what have I been doing wrong? And what can I be doing better? How do I improve myself as a person out of this?"

Will Phil do that? Eh, I doubt it.

[daseb]

Yeah good point. Tbh my opinion of phil is so low that I straight up didnt even think about the other option hah.

[decomposing]

A person having to change how they feel to placate fans of their music sits wrongly with me for some reason. Isn't it enough to just like the records and their horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE guitar tone and just go 'yeah that guy sucks?'

I mean it would be nice if there were no more racists in the world (I mean come on I'm one of the most bleeding heart PC whatever people on here) but...fuck I dunno.

yeah I don't think people should change their views based on what others think
that's what made phil great at a certain point
or how much you delved into him
he didn't care
but thought he stood for something more
than also blind hatred
at a certain point if your core views are of violence you need to question everything you stand for
but we should question everything all the time.
TRUST NO ONE.

anyways,
found this
maybe needs it's own thread?
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ad38087bac/donald-trump-art-of-the-deal-movie?_cc=__d___&_ccid=de1095e50554f9e8