INFANEM the driving notion clone

[digi2t]

eatyourguitar's above posts?

OK. From the top then;

the irony of this is that you showed up when this project started to say that you already had the schematic but you would not share and you would not sell PCB's.

False. I did not "show up when this project started". Fact, I never posted anything in this thread until 26 March 2021 (this year). Yes, I have followed the thread, as a passing interest, but had no intentions of posting anything. It was iba's post on 26 March 2021 (desert scene) that enticed me to get involved. Also false, I never claimed that we would not eventually sell PCB's. Keep this point in mind, I'll clarify further on.

I took you on your word and I understand your reasons for running your business any way you want. I believe your exact words were something like "that pedal sucks and I would not waste my time releasing a PCB for sale". so taking you on your word and respecting your decision to not sell this PCB, I also invested my time into tracing it.

False. On 10 March 2020 (last year, and three months after the thread started), I received an unsolicited PM from Mr. Smith, which read;

reverse engineering
Sent: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:46 am
From: eatyourguitar
To: digi2t

I have pictures of the PCB from the INFANEM driving notion. I was planning on doing some reverse engineering so that I can make a custom PCB. the problem is that I have been extremely busy with school and work. I am under the impression that you enjoy spending your time reverse engineering and building clones of out of production pedals. I can't throw you any money since I am not making money doing this. but if you want free access and you would like to share what you find with the community, then I will send you loads of detailed photos at every stage of disassembly. I can also send you 5 free PCB's of the thing after I design a PCB for it. you can trade and sell them to get back some of your time investment. if you never send me a schematic then I will never send you a PCB obviously because one depends on the other.

let me know if you want the pictures and have time to trace it

Robert Smith
Eatyourguitar.com

To which I replied that same morning;

Hi Robert,

We've already traced out the 3 and 5 knob versions some time ago. Neither version ever convinced us to be that great of a fuzz, or to be distinct enough to merit adding PCB's to our overhead, so we mothballed the works indefinitely in favor of more interesting projects. Maybe one day we'll revisit it, or maybe not. Who knows. Plenty of more interesting projects to trace out there right now, as my overflowing work bench can attest. If we do decide to make PCB's, then the schematic, as well as any other pertinent information will be released along with the build doc. As we've always done with all our projects.

Regardless, thanks a bunch for the offer.

Cheers,
Dino

Note that I never said that we would never make a PCB. With that, I opted out and went on with my life. Moving right along...

I had some difficulty getting it right which is totally not your fault but when I got stuck half way through I figured I would ask you for help again through your website. I made the case that I am completely out of business and it is what it is but I care a lot about the guy who donated his pedal to this project who is over a year without his pedal.

Well, yes... that does suck. But then again, when you go and make a claim such as this;

post pics of the inside please. I like to reverse engineer. I have a way to get it right %100 of the time. I build a full net list by checking continuity from each pad to every other pad. the search space is as big as p*(p-1)/2. this is close to (p^2)/2 which grows like p^2. this is why I want to see how big it is. something with 4 pots, 20 resistors, 4 caps, 2 IC, power = 70 pads. this means I have to check continuity 2415 times. in reality though, it would be 4830 because it is very difficult to skip duplicates. 2415 is only theoretical.

a fuzz face though, that would be 182 tests or 96 in god mode. the difficulty grows fast!

Then why would I bother getting involved. I mean, 100% success rate. Sorry, I can't compete with that. I screw up all the time. Constantly. It's like a disease. I'm afflicted. Screwupitis. No vaccine available. Anyway...

I tried to explain to you that if I am already agreeing to non-compete with you, and I am bankrupt in the pedal business, what is the harm in helping me help the guy who has been waiting over a year for his pedal? you just ghost my email no reply? that is pretty messed up that you swoop in to look like the hero when you never cared about OP the whole time. all you cared about was proprietary, competition, and profit.

First and foremost, we don't compete with anyone. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, for Phil and myself, this is a hobby. We both have very good jobs, and by no means do we monetarily depend on DEFX in any way shape or form. The day we get bored with it, or it begins to feel like a chore, we will shut it down in a heartbeat, and not bat an eyelash. As for not caring about the OP (ibarakishi), trust me, if we really didn't give a shit, then we wouldn't have gotten involved.

Yes, I did ghost his email to the deadendfx site (26 March 2021), which read...

From: Robert Smith (onlywearblack@gmail.com)

The following message was sent using your Big Cartel contact form at http://www.deadendfx.com/contact

I think we talked before when you said you traced the infanem driving notion on your own before I attempted it. I am now in a bad spot. there were some errors on my schematic that I traced as a project with jonwayne on ILF. The pedal was deconstructed into pieces so that has been destroyed. There are still details of my schematic that I believe are incorrect or unconfirmed. I feel really bad that I owe someone a guitar pedal and now that I am completely out of business, I want to end on a good note not burning the guy who donated his INFANEM pedal for tracing.

I am desperate so I thought I would ask you once again if you would share the schematic that you worked hard in tracing. I know you said it is proprietary but I am not competing with you now as a business and you are also not selling the driving notion so maybe you could let me see the schematic you have for it? pretty please?

First of all, the schematic is not proprietary, definitely not in the sense conveyed here. The circuit, as with the schematic, is the intellectual property of INFANEM. Second, and this one really gets to me, why in heavens's sake would someone destroy a perfectly good pedal to trace it? I'm sorry if this sounds flippant, but it's not even that tough of a trace. Yes, the traces are confusing because of the routing, and some SMD parts can be a pain to define, but then again, I've traced some of the later Spaceman pedals that are not only SMD, but have all the traces sandwiched between the two outer pours. Finally, the work we put into a project is our own, regardless of the circumstances. Yes, that is proprietary. Granted, I didn't breadboard the Notion until recently, but quite frankly, why would we share anything that hasn't been validated, or that we're not 100% confident in?

Also, just to digress for a moment, remember the original PM that he sent to me on 10 March 2020? Well, it didn't take too long before he was whining about it in this thread. Just a few hours after my reply to his PM, I saw this;

I just found out people have already traced it before me but they do not share don't worry. I will post everything for all to see. I will be selling PCB's. no one is selling PCB's right now. if they did they would need to release the schematic as well. if you hear anything on that please forward the link to me so that I can stop before I start.

Quite frankly, I just didn't know what to make of this. Was it a complaint? Was it an attempt at enticement? Some sort of guilt trip message? I don't know. I knew precisely who it was aimed at, but I simply decided to take a pass.

that's fine and I don't have a problem with anyone running a business. but I think it is time to air out what really happened and how competitive you are because people seem to think that you are some kind of philanthropist. the truth is you will lie and step on anyones toes if it increases your profit. you don't even have time to reply to my email to tell me that you are planning on copying me after my project started getting attention. I was the first one to make a PCB. you were the second. after your PCB is released, everyone will have the schematic and there are two people that can sell it. I'm glad I'm out of business so I don't need to go this low just to stay in business.

So, let's "air out what really happened"... he bent the truth, made claims that he couldn't back up, took facts out of context to suit his position, not to mention destroying a perfectly good pedal that's not even his, and yet, somehow, we're to blame.

Just to be clear, Phil and I have traced a lot of circuits together over the past three years. Over the 10 years previous to our partnership, I've traced circuits and collected schematics to the point where I have half of a 1T backup drive's worth. Last I checked there was no law, written or otherwise, that states that I have any obligation to share anything. Yet, over the years, I think I've contributed more than my fair share to the DIY community. In the past 3 years, Phil and I have done our best to bring the most elusive and eclectic circuits back to life, not in as a form of competition with anyone, but simply in the spirit of contributing to the DIY movement.

And yet, for one man, this doesn't seem to be enough.

With that, I'll close with this; All I know is that there's someone halfway around the globe that's been out a pedal for over a year now. We plan on trying our level best to rectify that, to the best degree possible. What's really pissing me off right now isn't even the bullshit that Mr. Smith has spewed. What's really pissing me off right now? That fact that I didn't opt for the $20 overnight shipping from Mouser for the C5K pots and the SMD transistors that I want to try, so I can hopefully get this clone running proper. Instead, I opted for the $8 postal, which will get here... who knows when. Yup... real pisser indeed.

The other thing that keeps me up nights of late? The hope that it matches up with the original, enough so to meet with ibarakishi's approval.

That, and the need to pee at 3 AM.

That's it.

[ibarakishi]

The pedal was deconstructed into pieces so that has been destroyed. There are still details of my schematic that I believe are incorrect or unconfirmed. I feel really bad that I owe someone a guitar pedal and now that I am completely out of business, I want to end on a good note not burning the guy who donated his INFANEM pedal for tracing.

the irony is that i have received little to no communication or updates from EYG as to how my pedal (which i didn't know until now is completely destroyed i guess and has been?) is ever going to make it back to me or how i will be compensated if it cannot (i paid money for labor, which was not a donation). despite not being consistently kept in the loop for over a year, i had just made peace with the fact that my pedal never would return and i would not be compensated.

i understand sometimes people make mistakes or things happen in life. things have happened in my life before. i am understanding to these things because they happen to everyone. what im not understanding of is people not taking responsibility for their own actions, even if that is simply saying 'hey, i messed up. i didn't mean to mess up. i don't know how to reasonably or timely fix what i messed up. i own up to that and im sorry because i don't know how to make this right and haven't made it right for a pretty long time now.' i am a person of basic principle. i haven't received any sort of communication indicating anything close to this.

I have been quiet, i have been patient, i have been understanding, and i have been considerate. I think anyone would look at this situation with a level head and would agree that this is absolutely absurd.

i am a pretty simple person materially. i live a small life for very specific reasons. i don't own a lot of things because of my living situations, but the things i do own are things that i have to earn slowly through my own independent work together with my partner, and are things i actually rely on to truly use as tools. and i use them until they are run into the earth. this pedal was one of those things. I have literally used it on every single album i have recorded over the past almost 7 or so years now and on every album i have contributed to for friends that have invited me to play with them as well, as well as live. It was also the first 'real' pedal i ever bought for myself.

i am really appreciative to digi2t for his help despite so much noise in this thread and even though he doesn't and shouldn't feel any responsibility to add anything to this thread. its ridiculous that he is getting any sort of hate on any front. I don't expect people to understand where i am coming from or my living situation, but the response from EYG is mind melting to me on so many personal levels

i could get into other things, but its not necessary and i doubt anyone cares...

TLDR:
-thanks again digi2t for the help. im guessing from your video that things are on course to turn out well.

-EYG, you don't have to worry about getting my pedal to me, finishing anything, or worry about the money i paid since it seems to be stressing you out and pushing you to this. as oldangelmidnight mentioned, bowing out isn't at all shameful.

im going to go lay with my cats in bed. its been such a long week and this is the last thing i wanted to have to read today

[Chankgeez]

(Once again, Dino goin' above & beyond. )

[frodog]

Well, I can only say kudos to digi2t for laying everything out there in a clear and ultimately convincing way. And props to ibarakishi for being so patient and generous in giving away an essential pedal.

I didn't mean to stir up anything, I don't have any stake in this, just (perhaps mistakenly) saw a potential conflict here that in an impatient moment made me curious what the real story was.

No judgement either way, I just hope ibarakishi can get this pedal back somehow and a happy conclusion is reached for all involved.

[digi2t]

Pots and SMD transistors came in.

As for the transistors, it's just as finicky as with the selected thru hole models I had in there all ready. Didn't feel like auditioning a pile of grains of rice, so I said screw it, and soldered in the ones I had in there already.





Ready for testing tomorrow...



I noodled with them a bit tonight. First impressions; the clone isn't as "in your face" bright as the clone. I find that typically a difference between multi-layer ceramic caps and poly or metal poly film caps. The clone is loaded with films, while the original is all MLCC.

The original is louder. The difference being the clone IN and OUT at 6, while the original's are at 4. Considering that all my voltages are spot on to the original, I'll chalk it up to a hotter JFET in the original. Another thing that might be at play here is the trace layout of the original versus our clone PCB. The original has lots of traces passing under components. As I mentioned before, there's a lot of signals flying around on this, so could it be that there's crosstalk between traces and components? I dunno, I'm just spitballin'.

The high side in the original is really really bright, while the clone is more mellow, easier on the ears. All the metallic qualities are there, just without the ice-pickiness of the original. That all changes though when I flick on the Thick switch. Now the high side gets a nice boost and gets really dirty, in a good way. It's like an added dimension that's missing on the original.

Anyway... they definitely share common ground, yet have their own characters. Plus's and minus's all around. Sorta the same, but different, in good ways. I'll do some A/B recording tomorrow and upload it to Soundclick.

EDIT: I just tried adding another cap in parallel where the optional R30 is. Definite improvement in the high end. A bit more fuller. I also just noticed that the Low on the clone is stronger than the original. If I dial it back a touch, I get similar brightness to the original.

Like I said... similar, but different.

[ianmarks]

I like how someone clearly dilligagf'd the name on the pcb! Ha! The footswitch pcb looks like it would come in handy. Looks like the caps stayed at 1UF and I am assuming the multitrim is just by habit (I know you use them often in other builds.) The current schematic didn't bias at typical jfet range and didn't know if that was on purpose or there was something wrong. Regardless, getting to bias in recommended voltage range didn't change things up too much. Very excited to hear the details on transistor selection. Having spent quite a bit of time with it on perf, I am ready to get a fully functional one built! Stoked!

[digi2t]

I like how someone clearly dilligagf'd the name on the pcb! Ha! The footswitch pcb looks like it would come in handy. Looks like the caps stayed at 1UF and I am assuming the multitrim is just by habit (I know you use them often in other builds.) The current schematic didn't bias at typical jfet range and didn't know if that was on purpose or there was something wrong. Regardless, getting to bias in recommended voltage range didn't change things up too much. Very excited to hear the details on transistor selection. Having spent quite a bit of time with it on perf, I am ready to get a fully functional one built! Stoked!

The trimmer is also present on the original for biasing the JFET. The original is biased at 4.74v. I think the standard fare is to bias to 1/2 supply voltage.

[oldangelmidnight]

Will all these notes about component choices and biasing, mods, etc., be included with build documentation?

[digi2t]

Will all these notes about component choices and biasing, mods, etc., be included with build documentation?

Not at all.

I plan on withholding everything, and letting all of you whither and rot on the vine.


























Just kidding.

Yeah, all my notes and numbers will be mapped out in the build doc.

[digi2t]

OK, here's the comparison.

What I forgot to mention at the start of the clip;
- Dream 180 pups in the guitar.
- EQ on the amp set to treble 6, mid 6, bass 5, mid contour on. Voicing to vintage clean. Reverb at 4.
- Recorded into a Korg D888, EQ set flat.
- Amp mic is an SM58 copy, on the grill, 1" offset from center.
- Voice mic is a Sennheiser E835, turned away from the amp, but left on to capture room acoustics. About 5 feet from the cab.
- File format is MP3, with moderate compression. Otherwise, it was too big for my Soundclick account limit.
- I added a cap to the Hi inter-stage in the clone, so there's still a variation from the original, but it adds a bit of gain to the mid-high frequencies.

There's a running commentary filling in what I'm doing. My dexterity is shot because I smashed my middle finger tip working on my car a few weeks ago, and the finger nail is about 3/4 the way off. I have to cheat with my ring finger, but the middle gets in there sometimes, and it's painful as all... yeah, use the expletive of your choice. I'm doing my best.

They seem to be quite different when the Hi/Lo frequencies are set low, but as you dial them up, they seem to even up. At least to my ears. By the time the two frequencies are cranked, it starts to get hard to differentiate which is which, but then again, that's probably me going tone deaf. Anyway, you decide...

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=14232194

[ibarakishi]

i like what happens when the thick switch is engaged. the bottom and even the highs seem to bloom a bit and be more focused. i almost never used this pedal as a 'fuzz' and used it more as an always on low gain overdrive pedal with the highs clanging and the lows coming through a bit but i didn't push it into real saturation, only on the verge of breaking up when you really dig in. for whatever reason, when i used it like this when recording it makes your clean tone aluminum and then whatever you put after it for pedals makes them blow up and do things that 9 times out of 10 made them better than on their own without a driving notion pushing into them. RMA tetanus booster is the first that comes to mind that goes from being a 'great' pedal to being an 'amazing' pedal when a driving notion is feeding in front of it. its just one of those pedals where once i used it, it opened up everything after that point from there on and i couldn't go about playing or recording not using it for guitar. from what i remember too, the interaction between the in and out gain is pretty vital as well for this function (using it as a light overdrive treble booster instead of a fuzz). it helps you control the amount of overall gain/breakup and finely adjust what line you want to tow on for your overall breakup too. does the clone work in a similar fashion to your experience?

[digi2t]

it helps you control the amount of overall gain/breakup and finely adjust what line you want to tow on for your overall breakup too. does the clone work in a similar fashion to your experience?

Yes, the in and out controls do definitely help manage overall gain, whether it be inbound to the hi/lo stages, or outbound to the next effect, or the amp itself. To be honest, the track I recorded was to simply concentrate on the hi/lo controls, and to get input from everybody as to the tonal quality of the circuit itself. I didn't want to muddy the waters too much with extraneous inputs. But yes, at lower in settings, and low to mid-range hi/lo settings, it will sound more like a booster, or edge-of-breakup OD. Like I said earlier on, at lower settings, it gives the impression that you just had a brand new set of string put on. That brilliant metallic sound that lasts for the first couple of weeks, until they stretch in and mellow out. None of my guitars have had new strings put on in about a year now, so when I first switched it on (clone or original), it was the first impression that jumped to my mind. They also seem to accentuate any string/fret buzz quite well. Annoying well in fact.

Also, don't forget that component tolerances can also play a hefty role in the overall result. When a pot has a 20% tolerance, it's not uncommon that there will be some offset between two "identical" pots in the middle of the sweep. Zero and max will be fine, but expect some variations everywhere else.

With that said, if you have a particular setting that you would like me to audition, just tell me and I'll set them up that way and record them. I can do it with singles coils as well if you wish, or I can just cut a coil on a humbucker. I also have several different amps (tube and SS) at my disposition, so if you have a preference, I can adjust that setup as well. If you want me to add a booster before or after, I have all of the Spaceman boosters available as well, Mercury, Atlas, and Saturn.

[ibarakishi]

it helps you control the amount of overall gain/breakup and finely adjust what line you want to tow on for your overall breakup too. does the clone work in a similar fashion to your experience?

Yes, the in and out controls do definitely help manage overall gain, whether it be inbound to the hi/lo stages, or outbound to the next effect, or the amp itself. To be honest, the track I recorded was to simply concentrate on the hi/lo controls, and to get input from everybody as to the tonal quality of the circuit itself. I didn't want to muddy the waters too much with extraneous inputs. But yes, at lower in settings, and low to mid-range hi/lo settings, it will sound more like a booster, or edge-of-breakup OD. Like I said earlier on, at lower settings, it gives the impression that you just had a brand new set of string put on. That brilliant metallic sound that lasts for the first couple of weeks, until they stretch in and mellow out. None of my guitars have had new strings put on in about a year now, so when I first switched it on (clone or original), it was the first impression that jumped to my mind. They also seem to accentuate any string/fret buzz quite well. Annoying well in fact.

Also, don't forget that component tolerances can also play a hefty role in the overall result. When a pot has a 20% tolerance, it's not uncommon that there will be some offset between two "identical" pots in the middle of the sweep. Zero and max will be fine, but expect some variations everywhere else.

With that said, if you have a particular setting that you would like me to audition, just tell me and I'll set them up that way and record them. I can do it with singles coils as well if you wish, or I can just cut a coil on a humbucker. I also have several different amps (tube and SS) at my disposition, so if you have a preference, I can adjust that setup as well. If you want me to add a booster before or after, I have all of the Spaceman boosters available as well, Mercury, Atlas, and Saturn.

that answers my question well, so thank you. like i said above, i really like how the thick switch sounds. the clone sounds close enough (like you said, basically the same family) as what one should expect from a DN even with its small differences from the audio clip. i am sure once people get pcbs and stuff from you they will have fun further experimenting and adjusting things as well. where it stands now as is i think is wonderful too. i think its great that you included your own variations with the switch, as it will be fun to have that as a reference to see which positions people enjoy in different music contexts as well. this has been a really encouraging end to my week, so thank you for that again

[digi2t]

Well, no worries. I have to admit, while the original never impressed me, the clone has started to grow on me. Perhaps it's the fact that it sounds a bit fuller in the higher frequencies. Also, while I appreciate clean cleans, historically I've always leaned towards dirt. That of course, unfortunately perhaps, always tends to control my fingers when twisting the knobs. I like fuzz, and I cannot lie. Guilty as charged.

I have an idea; I'll do one more track. This time with a completely different setup. Let me experiment a bit, and I'll post the results tonight or tomorrow.

[digi2t]

OK, I had nothing better to do this morning ....

Guitar (George obviously approves.);


Pedal chain (CORRECTION! The GLENN booster is a clone of the Spaceman Atlas III, and not the Mercury.);


Amp;


Track (WARNING! I didn't do any mastering to this, so there are some good level jumps, especially when I kick on the boost. Check your volume.);
https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=14232624