Convoluted Messages in Anarchism!

[lordgalvar]

The best thing about the 1990s was it let the scenes air out and create a whole bunch of new directions. Some people stuck to the old styles, but we got a whole bunch of new stuff that was in the same kind of spirit...Crust/grind/noise/various hardcore forms/PV/etc got a lot more popular and some awesome stuff came out of that (and eventually overloaded/tired/same-y in the 2000s for me, but I still love a lot of it, just not kicking it downtown with a 40 no more talking about Electro Hippies and Exit 13 or whatever).

Yea, the 1990s kinda sucked though...I guess even though the 1980s felt so far away a lot of kids (including myself) were still dealing with the huge amount of 1980s music...The times were just better and maybe that edge was gone? I dunno...still listen to some of it sometimes...


^
Schwartzeneggar ... Steve Ignorant, Thatcher on Acid



^
Stratford Mercenaries .. SI again with people from FOPI, Buzzcocks and Doom


^
(A).P.P.L.(E)

And for something else:


^
Androids of Mu ... one of those bands that Penny/Crass Records passed over because they refused his demands (which was to change drummers, I think).

[lordgalvar]

Julian Cope didn't care too much for the burning of a million quid:

He burned a million pounds which was not all his, and some of it was mine. People should pay off their creditors before they pull intellectual dry-wank stunts like that.

I'd take that a step further and say, how much good could you have done with a million quid?

Bill Drummond was definitely insane and definitely punk, but maybe it would have been punker to spend more time making music instead of wanking around with fake electro shit and actually helping people instead of burning money?

Punks should help people.

Anyway what does Julian Cope know, he's dead anyway, apparently.

You know he and Cauty paid to get it reprinted, right? The money wasn't actually gone. It was the gesture and selling books of it burning as art that was the point. The nailing of bills to boards and having various monetary values of cash valued at 0 pounds "as art" was a pretty good one too. Part of it went to that artist that was voted the worst. I thought it fit the times. Drummond was pretty cool. The Fuck the Milleneum thing was kinda lame though.

Punks should do what they want. It they want to help people, that's cool. Just as long as they aren't destroying other people's ability to do what they want.

[daseb]

I think maybe it's because 90s/00s anarchism was coming much more out of a middle class university educated approach maybe? At least here it was. More about intellectualisation of concepts than the actual bitter, grim reality of squat life in thatcher britain.

Either way this thread inspired me to finally listen to Flowers in the Dustbin after years of hearing the name and I'm really liking what I've heard. Where should I go from there if my experience of 80s british anarcho/peace punk is basically Crass? I kinda prefer the heavier, crustier side of shit.




let's please keep this thread on track discussing rad music with ridiculous guitar tones rather than turning it into casecandy's views on punk and anarchism? please?

[casecandy]

Don't get me wrong! I like Bill Drummond! A lot. Although I'm more of a Cope fan as that post belies.

To me personally, punk is about doing good and helping people, because if the status quo is hate and suffering, then in order to be punk, you gotta spread the love and heal the wounds! That's my anarchism. I guess it's different for everybody.

Hey do you think Nolan ripped the bit in The Dark Knight where Joker burns the money off of KLF

[lordgalvar]

I think maybe it's because 90s/00s anarchism was coming much more out of a middle class university educated approach maybe? At least here it was. More about intellectualisation of concepts than the actual bitter, grim reality of squat life in thatcher britain.

Either way this thread inspired me to finally listen to Flowers in the Dustbin after years of hearing the name and I'm really liking what I've heard. Where should I go from there if my experience of 80s british anarcho/peace punk is basically Crass? I kinda prefer the heavier, crustier side of shit.




let's please keep this thread on track discussing rad music with ridiculous guitar tones rather than turning it into casecandy's views on punk and anarchism? please?

Totally agree with all of it; let's keep it on track. Some random couple in LA just paid FitD re-release which was random and weird...but awesome.

Yea, the 1990s was total middle class college kids here too. You've pretty much explained the scene here too. I think the squatter kids (at least the ones I ran with when I was one) were just more into drugs and the same old misfits songs. In a way though, it always was (or at least in part). They were all kinda like Rik (RIP) from the Young Ones; more talking about we should all eat lentils and read more instead of being angry. The more direct people were getting into crust.

I always like some Legion of Parasites:

and Icons of Filth (RIP Stiggy)

and the Sinyx

[daseb]

Icons of Filth are mad (always got them confused with Born Dead Icons hah), will check the others out, thanks!

Yeah here the very tail end of the 90s was weird. It split very much into crusty activists in one camp and street punks who just wanted to get obliterated in the other. Then heroin came through and killed a few people. In the 00's the former either dropped out of punk to focus on activism and doing some really cool, really effective direction action stuff in the native forests, or settled down and had kids or whatever. The latter all drank themselves into oblivion or became racist skinheads. Anarchist punk then got tied in with the whole crimethinc thing which produced music much more in line with what I like but it was very much an inward looking, upper middle class kids acting super selfish and trying to get laid thing. Definitely sucked a lot of the urgency out of the music.



edit: of course my view of 80s britain is basically Ian Glasper's books so I wouldn't be surprised to know that the anarcho/peace scene there was just as full of hot air.

[lordgalvar]

It was actually pretty similar here in Southern California (but I am from a ag/oil city inland, and quite a bit different from LA, SF, etc. each of those were pretty different). The 1990s were pretty stagnant here; we kinda all were activist but there was no "anarcho" scene. Crass, Black Flag, Angelic Upstarts were just punk (or hardcore)...so it was all kind of one thing. Everybody kinda just was themselves and bound by music not really anything deeper than that. When the crusties started to rise out of the storm drains or suburban houses was when the activism stuff really got here (must have been 1995-96 and really took over by 1998). A lot of those kids went away and got those cool degrees (like botony, women's studies in 19th century literature). The ones that stayed got really into their little scene and helping people that looked like them with food not bombs and stuff. The ones that avoided the activism side got into Oi, street punk, metal, or just garage/mod/etc...

By 2002, most of them had either cleaned up (i.e. became adults with kids and stuff), moved on to crust/grind/noise/blackmetal/etc, or got into emo/trend of the week (not saying anything about emo, just some of them jumped off to other scenes by that time or later like no-wave etc). The guys that jumped to the cooler scenes usually did it to appeal to a mate.

The ones that did stay the peace punk/activism course got real snotty and smug about it. "I wont play there because they aren't all ages" or "You're wearing Docs? Murderer.", etc (you know what I am talking about)...kicked me out of the "scene" for a bit because I had leather boots and missed a food not bombs meeting. Then it started to get into the lazy, hate the world, DIY scene where they wanted favors or handouts all the time...I dunno, at least in my town of 400k.

The Skins and Straight Edgers were a separate scene that crossed over sometimes. They liked to come to town and start fights. Indie Rockers were around too, but they were an awkward conversation.

Heroin came later and, yea, lost a lot of friends that way.

I remember when I was a street kid, P.A.W.N.S. was the big California peace punk band...they drove this van for "action" but they refused to talk/kick it with the street kids because they were college educated or whatever (which was funny because I was paying for school by working full time at night and living on the streets, but whatever...not a sustainable system anyway).

It had been in death convulsions since the 1990s....it just took 15 years to die.

Anyway, most of the peace/anarcho bands were crust or grind around here. Some noise bands too. Sorry for rambling haha.

[lordgalvar]

Hey do you think Nolan ripped the bit in The Dark Knight where Joker burns the money off of KLF

No.

edit: of course my view of 80s britain is basically Ian Glasper's books so I wouldn't be surprised to know that the anarcho/peace scene there was just as full of hot air.

I think it was to a point. Nothing is as cool in the moment as it seems through history. I think it was very similar to your experiences though...it kinda seems like the UK82 side just wanted to squat and get fucked up and the other "activist" side were doing the hippy punk thing (and a few other splinters too). There is crossover too. Discharge, Amebix, etc...at least talking to my friends that were there...be interested to see what O-Drones says.

The anarcho tag/genre was added way later like 2000s. I don't remember it at all being used until after Glasper's book (but I am sure the origins are earlier). Peace Punk I remember, but it was more for the bands that made zines and worked at soup kitchens and stuff.

I think the scenes just inverted back into themselves and is more concerned with their own happenings versus interatcting with the outside world. I dunno. I am just rambling.

Post more music: stuff more recent, different stuff...I think this thread has some potential.

[casecandy]

Hey do you think Nolan ripped the bit in The Dark Knight where Joker burns the money off of KLF

No.

It just seemed like a natural reference

Anyway...

[daseb]

I can post some great australian crust when I can get on youtube later. All the stuff from here is heavy though. Peace punk type stuff in my time at least has been a bit of a punchline.

[lordgalvar]

I can post some great australian crust when I can get on youtube later. All the stuff from here is heavy though. Peace punk type stuff in my time at least has been a bit of a punchline.

Good deal man (peace punk is here too)

[daseb]

Alrighty. Putting this post together I realised I'll have to focus on melbourne bands because I don't know enough about other cities. I know the big bands from sydney or adelaide or whatever but I don't really like most of them.

TBH I'm way too much of a middle class Moss Icon fan for this stuff really, but it ended up being the kind of shows my bands would play and the people I'm friends with. So yeah...this is very surface level and you can argue that half these bands aren't crust or anarcho or whatever. Who cares they're all rad and definitely more punk than fucking Refused.

SCHIFOSI. One of the best bands to ever come out of this country. Recordings were ripping but what they were like live was on a whole other level. Their last unreleased stuff is really worth tracking down online. Tristan started listening to a lot of Isis and yeah...it got really heavy.



Pisschrist. Included Tim, Schifosi drummer. TBH I never really got into them. Great people all of them and they were fun when they were the band that played first at house shows singing about 'tofu terror'. Got to a point where you couldn't go see them without some kid you didn't know standing on your head in motorcycle boots though. It was mad how much they blew up but I'm from the 90s and hate fun so there you go. Definitely great at what they did, just isn't my thing.



ABC Weapons. More metallic than either of the two previous, features members of both. I saw their very first show at the much missed, somewhat overstated Arthouse hotel. Probably about 50 people, all with their jaws on the floor. Incredible stuff. Half these riffs ended up slowed down and turned into Whitehorse songs apparently.



Pure Evil Trio. Actually from sydney. On that weirdo Rudimentary Peni trip. Still going, just put out one of the best records they've done. Phenomenal live. Ridiculous musicians. Lovely people. One of the bands I see the most connection to 80s UK stuff in terms of just taking those influences and not being afraid to be a little bit weird with it. Being punk by resisting sonic definitions of punk or something. Their song 'passing notes in school' is absolutely heart wrenching and for some reason not online.



Conation from Newcastle. These guys are like the great illustration of what late 90s australian hardcore could be like. Because the scenes themselves were so small you'd have a whole bunch of disparate people all at the one show and starting bands together. This was how ebullition loving emo fruits like me ended up in bands with crusties and edgepersons. Conation were from a small (even by au standards) city that threw people together like that and ended up throwing their influences together as well. I can't find my favourite song of theirs, anthematic lies, off this album which has an incredible chorus ("I'm not proud of this fucking country"), so this'll do.



Newer bands:

Extinct Exist. Members of ABC Weapons and Schifosi. Great band, need to let Erle write more Bolt Thrower style breakdowns though.



Scab Eater. Are they crust? I dunno. Good band though. Cause a bit of controversy and pissed off some patriots like good young punk bands should.



Diploid. These guys are a great example of what's going on in melbourne right now. They're not crusties. But the music they're playing is pulling in everything great from the last ten or fifteen years of crust, thrash, power violence, DIY hardcore in general and even shit like PG99 and just blending it effortlessly into monolithic, punishing ten to fifteen minute sets. Most anything Reece, Mariam and Scott do is great (The World at a Glance, Putkah, Mt. Zero).



Last Chaos from Brisbane. Scandi style punk stuff. Leo is a ridiculous guitarist, the only show I've seen these guys play was absolutely mental. The kind of show where you stand up the back of the room on a bench so you won't get covered in alcohol, broken glass and flying limbs. Fuck I'm getting old.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/9N-4m34YFyk[/youtube]

Teargas from Brisbane. Like a lot of this stuff, not a crust band, but they played DIY shows to punks so got called 'crust' by hardcore kids in expensive sneakers. They were on their own version of japanese metallic hardcore and holy hell did they tear this whole country a new one for a few years. Neil is a force of a nature as a front person, can't wait to hear his new band. Very Deathside influenced. Their last show was at a punk warehouse space up the road from my house with Forward, where they did a Deathside cover with Ishiiya. Mental.

[lordgalvar]

Lots of good stuff...still giving it all a good listen. I knew some people around my hometown that were into Pisschrist and I have the Teargas demo on cassette (don't remember how I ended up with it) and it does fit right into my love for Japanese hardcore. Good stuff though, thanks for SCHIFOSI, hadn't ever heard of them (and a few others from the list).

More in a bit!

Let's get some more countries involved:

[gnomethrone]

This band sounds like CRASS' pens envy and it makes me happy:

[lordgalvar]

Hell yea! Antischism and Antisect are two of my all time favorites!

Phobia...I kicked it with them at a house show...haha. Nice call on Permaculture!