Playing Quietly

[le lambin]

I’ve been researching a lot about Matamps recently and contemplating which amp is best for my “needs.” Should I get one with a master volume, what wattage is the most useful, am I going to be using it for mostly drive or mostly clean, etc.

Countless forum threads and YouTube videos and ad copy later, and I’m starting to notice something: everyone is talking like they play loud ass amps all day, every day.

Every other comment about such and such amp is, “that’s your problem- you gotta turn it up.” If I try and go down the speaker rabbit hole, it’s a bunch of people saying, “this speaker only really starts doing its thing when the volume is past 5” or “speaker choice doesn’t matter at low volumes.”

I get it- guitar amps were designed to make guitars louder. Most classic sounds were made (or are falsely attributed to) loud amps being played. We all want to sound like so and so guitar player, or get such and such sound, and it seems like these goals are inextricably tied to running your amp loud.

So who is actually doing this? I can’t believe the majority of people reviewing amps online or giving me advice are cranking their Deluxe Reverbs or Ac30s at the local dive to ensure they get that “sound.” I have to believe most guitar players are playing at home, and playing at low volume.

The times have changed- but people’s opinions on amps and playing in general seem to be resistant to it. The majority of marketing for these companies glorify the good old days of loud amps and loud bands, and emphasize the ability of product x to “sound just like a raging stack!” If they are marketed as a “practice” amp, the first thing they’ll say is how you can “crank it up without getting the cops called!”

Do we even like cranking it up all the time? Is electric guitar only worth playing if it’s through wall shaking speaker cabs?

It seems to me like there are many wonderful sounds to be had at low volume. It doesn’t sound like a Marshall stack- but that’s completely fine with me. I’m not sure I would ever actually want that sound. And honestly, since Covid, I’m not sure I’m even a huge fan of it anymore- maybe the isolation made me more used to being quiet, and listening to music at a lower volume in general.

So what’s my point? I don’t know I guess- I play quietly and I’m not afraid anymore! Yeah!

[Chankgeez]

I got one of these (Audio Kitchen The Big Trees):



2.5W, couldn't be happier.

[retinal orbita]

I have three stupid loud ass heads, two giant cabs and a wife who works from home. Even when I am "playing quietly" I'm not. Amps are very loud!! And stupid!!

I feel like my live playing days are done and yet I still can't sell these dumb loud amps and buy a tiny little combo. I should really rethink my current plan. It's not particularly clever.

[Blackened Soul]

You know.. one can do both… there are not rules… pretty much always had a big amp and a small amp.. currently…
for bass (primary instrument) I have a mesaboogie 400+ (500w tube amp) and a fender bass man 20 (18w tube amp)
For guiteer I have a orange thunderverb 200 (200w tube amp) and a Ampeg jt12 (15w tube amp) they are all great for different things, the important thing is getting a amp(s) that you like the sound of also… didn’t matamp make the minimat http://www.matamp.de/wp/?p=149 you ask if they would still make something like it

Also… don’t underestimate the coolness of power soaks and attenuators, my orange has built in attenuator and power tube selectors to cut the wattage in half, lot of amps have this kind of thing…

Also also, champs are awesome! Vibrio champs in particular

[K2000]

I live in an apartment building with thin walls. I only play loud music at my shared practice space. At home, I don't even use an amp. Nobody needs to hear me struggling to learn new stuff, or struggling to get better at what I already know.

At the practice space it's loud enough that the amps sound good, but not so extremely loud that it's quickly ear-fatiguing. And I'm trying to have fun, and build up my endurance, etc, and that (theoretically, anyway) encourages me to practice more at home. I actually don't practice enough at home. But I still try to go to the practice space, in order to justify why I'm still paying rent there. I'm depressed and unmotivated currently, but I'm trying to keep doing the things that allegedly bring me enjoyment.

If I lived in a house I would jam in the basement, and try to seal it up as much as possible. But I live in a dense city where there aren't many freestanding houses. I've tried headphones at home and I don't love using them, but I sometimes use them, with a Sansamp last in line going into a small Behringer mixer. I have bought small amps in the past for the purpose of playing at home, and they didn't get used. If it's louder than a TV, I don't want to use it at home.

[Gone Fission]

I’m waiting on a particular 1 watt tube head to be released. My speaker cab is an EVM loaded TL-806, so even that one watt is overkill for me—I might need a much less efficient speaker for at-home volumes (or even many out-of-the-house situations).

Guitar amplification developed before PA systems caught up. By the time that happened, a wall of stacks wasn’t really necessary for arenas or festival gigs, but people got used to playing those amps that way and kids starting out wanting that sound that their heroes got. But 100 watt non-master-volume amps don’t do that breakup thing at an appropriate volume for the coffee house gig. You know how Twin Reverbs always seem to be available for every new generation of local scene musicians? I think it’s because the older generations are done dealing with them where the smaller models are less overkill.

So we get the second order solutions: drive pedals, increased preamp gain, master volumes, load boxes and attenuators, amp modeling, and speaker impulse responses (IRs) run into full range flat response speaker systems. The simplest hack is using the smallest amp you can get away with cranking and using the PA if you need to get louder, but even that can get loud AF. Speaker breakup, though, is probably a bit overstated as a phenomenon—it doesn’t take a lot to get them moving, and psychoacoustic stuff like the Munson Fletcher effect probably make volume sound more different than more wattage to a speaker does. (Try mic’ing the “under-driven” speakers into PA and stage monitors at volume and you’ll probably not feel like you’re missing much.)

The sound may be the easiest part to get close enough. The feel of a big cab shaking yer butt and that bit of sympathetic feedback when the speaker vibrates the guitar are not headphone rig phenomena. And they’ll wake the partner/kids/pets/neighbors in many cases. I’m really interested in a fully hollow Casino to lean into the interaction at low volume, but it’d be just one bit of a stew to get that low volume experience to feel different.

[moozz]

Most of the time I just use headphones. I do have a 15W Squier Champ guitar combo that I sometimes "crank" and it will bring a nice room sound and feedback to recordings. I also have a 150W Carvin Pro Bass combo that can go dangerously loud but that is in another country at the moment (getting it home in 2024) so no cranking that one for a while. Extremely loud can be extremely rewarding but somehow doing that everyday would be overdoing it IMO. Like I love trying out a bunch of 15% imperial stouts but doing that every day would definitely be overdoing it. Dunno which one would get on my wife's nerves more.

[le lambin]

Looking back at my post, I was a bit all over the place, a bit old man yelling at cloud. I could definitely have streamlined my thoughts a bit. It’s mostly the marketing that bothers me, that most people have seemed to accept as fact: that we need to look to the past for how to achieve the “correct” sounds from an amplifier. But what else are companies going to do- glorify the bedroom musician that most of us are? I guess you have to sort of promise that your amp is going to sound like whatever famous person in order to sell it- not sure why I’m so grumpy about it. Sorry y’all.

[Chankgeez]

Well, I've got a bunch of amps (in a broad range of wattages).

I only wish some fancy amp manufacturer'd come out with a set of matched amps in these wattages: 1/4W, 1W, 5W, 15W, 30W, 50W and 100W

They could sell the set for big $ and rich people'd buy 'em.

[Gone Fission]

It’s mostly the marketing that bothers me, that most people have seemed to accept as fact: that we need to look to the past for how to achieve the “correct” sounds from an amplifier. But what else are companies going to do- glorify the bedroom musician that most of us are?

I was thinking about this kind of stuff last night. Love the hell out of some “wrong” sounds and direct-in stuff. Medicine, lovesliescrushing, Astrobrite, Flying Saucer Attack. Reeves Gabrels’ leaning into all the unnatural things he could get out of the Roland VG devices on the 90s Bowie stuff.

On a more normie lane, I’m considering that some of the rack nostalgia focusing on 80s L.A. pop rock guitar stuff was probably driven by people playing stuff quietly at home early in the pandemic—lots of preamp tones, a lot of it without speaker sims or with pretty basic-function ones with the flatness compensated by a ton of effects grease. I only mind any of that sort of gear gestalt to get ideas of how Robin Guthrie might have done Cocteau Twins sounds.

[coupleonapkins]

Big score yesterday at GC was a $25 Squier Sidekick, and it pairs nicely with my Fender Champion 600 (both have 6 inch speakers). There's another 600 at Dave's right now, but $250 seems too steep for me, hence the Sidekick :::TGP 7-UP dot dance.gif::

But yeah, big amps are for big parties/underpass punk shows/midnight in the gardens of dwight gooden evil, and I have yet to understand them (or power soaks, for that matter) for general household use, well maybe you could start a fight with a broken attic fan or something. Also tube maintenance is a thing I also do not understand, but have at ye, whomever you choose 2 b :::cryingclownfree2beyouandme.gif:::

As for the marketing, that's showbiz, baybee! I do pine for the feasibility of wall-2-wall funtiendo entertainment that was/were guitar mags of yore, primarily for the ridiculous advertissments (odds of Steve Vai were always 2:1), but also because I appreciated the eclecticism of the FIVE NEW TABS of whatever was popular at the moment, interspersed with an oldie but goodie ("Everyday" by Sugar Ray AND "Katmandu" by Seger?!?!?). The many-modalled hype train of today has nothing on that kind of showbizshimpt you could get for about five doll hairs, I tale you whut :::showgirlsthe1995movie.gif:::

It’s mostly the marketing that bothers me, that most people have seemed to accept as fact: that we need to look to the past for how to achieve the “correct” sounds from an amplifier. But what else are companies going to do- glorify the bedroom musician that most of us are?

I was thinking about this kind of stuff last night. Love the hell out of some “wrong” sounds and direct-in stuff. Medicine, lovesliescrushing, Astrobrite, Flying Saucer Attack. Reeves Gabrels’ leaning into all the unnatural things he could get out of the Roland VG devices on the 90s Bowie stuff.

On a more normie lane, I’m considering that some of the rack nostalgia focusing on 80s L.A. pop rock guitar stuff was probably driven by people playing stuff quietly at home early in the pandemic—lots of preamp tones, a lot of it without speaker sims or with pretty basic-function ones with the flatness compensated by a ton of effects grease. I only mind any of that sort of gear gestalt to get ideas of how Robin Guthrie might have done Cocteau Twins sounds.

All of this is TRUE :::spandauballet.gif:::

Well, I've got a bunch of amps (in a broad range of wattages).

I only wish some fancy amp manufacturer'd come out with a set of matched amps in these wattages: 1/4W, 1W, 5W, 15W, 30W, 50W and 100W

They could sell the set for big $ and rich people'd buy 'em.

We smoke big trees in this thread

[coldbrightsunlight]

Loud is good. Quiet is good. All is good. it's the reason my primary amp is SS so it's 200W and loud as hell when needed but sounds approximately the same at home, when I play louder than some people are able to due to a decent building and tolerant neighbours, but not that loud all things considering.

I agree, as someone who likes going to see "loud amp bands", all the marketing stuff around this is very very silly for the average player. It's the reason I often look at big tube amps (because I really do love how they sound loud, from gigs and personal experience) but then talk myself out of it because how often, really, would I turn it up?

As we all know there are records with great "loud amp" tones that were recorded with tiny amps, plenty of people who use computers, or solid state amps with distortion so turning up the amp volume doesn't matter a whole lot after a certain point unless you're in the room. There's an awful lot of woo about this stuff.

But I think it's par for the course with the guitar industry? The vast majority of stuff is oriented to older guys and older music, either because of inertia in the companies, or because they spend the most money, or likely a bit of both! We're still playing the millionth edition of the telecaster/LP/strat etc. because "that's what X used" and amps are no different.

[friendship]

I live in a dense city and basically haven't used my two loud amps in like 12 years, even when I was playing shows. I can't bring myself to sell them though, because I love and miss the feeling of turning up really loud and becoming engulfed in sound. Sometimes I think about renting a practice space just to satisfy that desire, but rental space is mad expensive so I haven't gone through with it yet.

I have a 15w combo that is still too loud for my apartment but at the very least is appropriate for band playing, so that's not going anywhere either, just in case.

So most of my playing has been the smol Boss Katan and my (possibly outdated) POD HD for recording. It doesn't feel very rock and roll, but it's 2023 so maybe who cares?

[D.o.S.]

I play loud ass amps 3-5 hours at a time at practice, but practice is 1x per week usually and no more than 2-3x/week at most. But... my big loud ass tube amp is collecting dust at the moment because getting it services (and in particular, re-valved) is insanely expensive. So I use my tiny loud ass solid state amp instead.

That said, I also live in a tiny flat in a massively crowded city, and that's unlikely to change in the near future. For practicing at home though, I think monitors & and interface (or even headphones and an interface) are infinitely preferable to small amps, especially if you do any music making involving a computer.

[le lambin]

For practicing at home though, I think monitors & and interface (or even headphones and an interface) are infinitely preferable to small amps, especially if you do any music making involving a computer.

This whole plugging into the computer and playing through Amplitube or some other plugin is still so new and strange to me- what’s your experience with this? What do you use? When I was on Instagram i remember Fortin being the amp sim for metal dudes to play through, but I heard Cory wong had some amps through them modeled? I’m guessing those have to be fenders or something…clearly I don’t know much about this. I’m guessing you can just track directly from the amp sim into your daw? That’s convenient.