Lovepedal Amp 11 = Timmy

[Gunner Recall]

In the schematic I posted, the rectangular section above the triangle on the left...
a few people have stated that is unique to the timmy, that it had never been done before.

[dubkitty]

interesting. like i said, i'm not an expert (or even particularly knowledgeable), but i last worked at a semiconductor firm where i did their datasheets and can more or less read schematics and that section does look unusual. and the similarities between the 2 circuits are painfully obvious.

[culturejam]

swhat determines the acceptability of copying another manufacturers' product? there doesn't seem to be any rational basis other than sentiment.

There is, actually. But most people won't admit it (or don't realize it's the issue):

Size of the company / perceived financial success seems to be the big factor. It's fine to "use an idea" from ProCo or EHX or Boss or Digitech or Ibanez because they're rich. It's bad to steal from Paul C or Bill Finnegan because they aren't rich and can't afford to lose business.

That's really what is at the heart of all the outrage. The idea that "stealing" from a small builder is the same as taken food of their table and starving their children is a powerful emotional force. But what people don't realize is that if a small builder goes belly up, there are one or two or three people out of a job. If Boss goes under, hundreds of people are going to lose their job.

So from a utilitarian standpoint, it does the least harm to steal* from small builders.



* For the record, I do not see the incestuous nature of copying in the music gear world as "stealing". I'm using that term because it goes with the whole emotional aspect of this dram-filled debate.

[culturejam]

In the schematic I posted, the rectangular section above the triangle on the left...
a few people have stated that is unique to the timmy, that it had never been done before.

It's not anything new. That's just feedback loop clipping, which the Tubescreamer is well known for. Granted, it's got DIP switches to offer options, but that's not new either.

What's interesting is the Bass control just to the left of all that. And the way the Tone control is set up.

Here's the bottom line: there are about a half dozen ways to make dirt, but filtering it is where all the thinking and creativity comes in. I've had a few phone convos with Paul C, and I can tell you for a fact that he understands filtering on a level that makes most pedal builders look like retards (myself included). Dude knows his shit.

[theavondon]

"I see it, I see it all now."

What we gotta do is, we gotta snag that tall dude and STOMP THE SHIT OUT OF HIM and then we'll find out whats going on.

Winner winner chicken dinner

I knew it first as a Municipal Waste reference, then saw the movie.

[Gunner Recall]

Yarr it's the way the bass is filtered into that loop that's pretty novel, Paul knows his stuff for sure.
Hopefully he's not losing any sleep over this mess and is focused on cranking out tim/timmy's and working on those fabled new pedals he's had on the backburner.

[StopReferencing]

I'm certainly no authority on this sort of thing, buuuuut...

aren't the "more reputable" (yeah yeah, whatever) purveyors of cloned goods (i.e. Analogman, as mentioned) dealing in versions of long out-of-production circuits that bear little sonic resemblance to their currently obtainable "owning company"-manufactured counterparts (say for instance, a Dunlop Fuzz Face)? Like, if someone comes up with the idea to mod a circuit to sound better, then markets that as their own design, it...IS their own design - just one that owes a significant debt to its predecessors. I'm...pretty sure that the Fuzz Face is a fucked up Tonebender, right? And the Octavia is a fuzz face with a transformer thrown in? If our ethics dictate that we only buy from the progenitors of these designs when available (like Paul C., if you buy that he is in fact the progenitor of Timmy-like circuits [a point I do not care to argue]), then don't buy Sean's take on the Timmy (if all is as it seems, etc.), and say, "Sean's at it again, GEEZ!" Beyond that, what are we arguing about?

[dubkitty]

i'm not arguing, i'm asking questions that are intended to elicit information to balance the story. since the narrative is "Lovepedal steals original Timmy design," IMO it's only appropriate to ask "is the Timmy really original?" and when some boutique stomp-box clones are widely decried while others are accepted, it's appropriate to ask why.

[StopReferencing]

I mean, the fact that you consider your question concerning the Timmy's originality as the "only appropriate one to ask" implies at least some acceptance of said "wide decrying;" what I'm asking is - why bother with that?

[nightraven]

to be fair Ibanez have been ripping off Maxon ever since the TS-808 reissue

[StopReferencing]

to be fair Ibanez have been ripping off Maxon ever since the TS-808 reissue

[dubkitty]

I mean, the fact that you consider your question concerning the Timmy's originality as the "only appropriate one to ask" implies at least some acceptance of said "wide decrying;" what I'm asking is - why bother with that?

i ask "is the point you're making with this complaint even accurate?" that doesn't assume i accept the underlying premise. honestly, my impression is that 95% of the effects business is based on theft of intellectual property or reuse of common concepts, and thus i find it hilarious when one of these controversies comes up. oh, wow, somebody added a tone control. that's nice, and maybe it's a slightly different implementation, but it's still a tone control. and really, am i supposed to weep bitter tears for someone who has six months of orders backed up?

it seems to me that it comes down to sentiment. people like Paul C., so they're outraged that his stuff gets copied; people don't like Zachary Vex, so they laugh when his stuff gets copied. there's no actual principle involved; it's high-school popularity shit.